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  1. #1
    01FR500 is offline
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    Angry Why!!! Why do I Lose?

    Ok, so most people, including me, usually post about how they won a race or something. This is not that kind of post. This post is about how I lose every single time to my best friend's v6 Automatic Camaro. It has taken me a long time to fess-up. I want answers and comments if you got'em.
    My best friend has a 2001, v6, automatic, Camaro with only flowmaster exhaust and 18x9.5 Z06 rims (picture on my page 5 of my website I think).
    I have a 2001, v6, automatic, Mustang with true dual flowmaster exhaust, Cold-air-induction, T-lok, 3:73 gears, diablosport programer, and 42%underdrive crank pulley, underdrive waterpump pulley, an optinal 50 shot of nitrous when I have it with me(only use it for the track), and 18x9 FR500 rims. A lot more mods.
    We like to race ricers mostly but often we race each other.(I spanked a Turbo Talon from a stop last Saturday, Whoo Hoo!!!) When both of our cars were stock I lost whether it be from a stop or a 40 roll, by about 4-5 car lengths. I blamed it on his posi differential, and better gearing. His car won't spin the tires powerbraking, he can hold the brake and rev it all the way to 4000rpm if he wants to launch at it, me 1500rpm max and I start spinning. Now I have all these modifications and I still lose. Why? It is pretty much even at launch now but he pulls away and then he stays ahead by about 1.5-2 car lengths of me until the end. What makes his almost stock Camaro beat me. It can't possibly have that much more power than me. Is it the weight difference? Please give me advice or bestowe upon me some knowledge.
    2003 GT
    H&R SuperSports l Tokico Illumina dampers l Maximum Motorsports c/c plates l MM XL SFCs l MGW shifter l other goodies...

  2. #2
    5.0literriceeater is offline
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    I think the v6 camaro makes more power stock, not positive. Your launch prob is the 3:73 gears. Thats why you will spin faster than him. Hes gettin traction and youre not.
    Im not a big v6 stang expert, but thats the only thing that makes sense to me from your post.
    Come on man, its stock! How could you loose!

  3. #3
    sublime302 is offline
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    i dont know much about camaros.. but are the v6 one wheell drive like mustang v6's? not sure.. jw

  4. #4
    jason2004gt is offline
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    I think the camaro v6 was rated @ 220hp from the factory. Maybe he has more done to it than you know!?

    2001 Bullitt
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  5. #5
    mineralgrey01gt is offline
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    that car has more done than you think, trust me if he pulls you like that. Put the 50 shot on him and see what happens
    2001 Mustang GT (soon to have a cobra soul)

  6. #6
    AmericanMetal is offline
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    You've both got 6 cyl but does he have more displacement and/or torque? I heard some Camaros have stock suspensions that Mustangs need mods to match but couldn't tell you exactly what the differences are. Presuming you've got equal hp (which we don't really know?) then he might just be able to put more to the ground.
    IF YOU'RE NOT FIRST, YOU'RE LAST - Ricky Bobby's Dad


  7. #7
    Nicoleb3x3 is offline
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    check your traction....make sure you're not spinning away the win!

  8. #8
    Duncan McDougal is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason2004gt
    I think the camaro v6 was rated @ 220hp from the factory. Maybe he has more done to it than you know!?
    The V6 3800 series caramos had 200hp and 225tq.

    As for the reason he is beating you it is beyond me. You say you have a chip, did the chip increase the firmness of your shifts and change the shift points. Your car should be shifting at 5250 to 5500 and could take it 6k with the stock valvetrain before you get float. The GM auto is much better than the stock ford auto but your chip should have taken car of that and your gearing should give you the win. Also why did you choose 3.73 and not 410's with an auto?

  9. #9
    01FR500 is offline
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    The v6 camaros have a 231 CI engine and posi-traction and 3:42 gears from the factory as well as dual exhaust if they have the Y87 pakage which his does.They are rated with more horsepower. I choose 3:73 gears because I Have a 170 mile trip to college one way (3K rpm doesnt sound goos for that long). My car is shifting at 5250 rpm and it chirps the tires from 1-2 and 2-3 sifts. I just cant figure out how he is still able to beat me.
    2003 GT
    H&R SuperSports l Tokico Illumina dampers l Maximum Motorsports c/c plates l MM XL SFCs l MGW shifter l other goodies...

  10. #10
    nvenm8u is offline
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    From what you said earlier it's all in the way you launch. You said you can't tach it up and he can, thus given him the jump that you can't make up. Get some soft compound tires or barrow a set of drag radials! lol

  11. #11
    01FR500 is offline
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    How about a new Tourgue converter and a line-lock, and some Drag radials, then Ithink I can hang with a damn near stock v6 Camaro.
    2003 GT
    H&R SuperSports l Tokico Illumina dampers l Maximum Motorsports c/c plates l MM XL SFCs l MGW shifter l other goodies...

  12. #12
    91GT347 is offline
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    He can rev to 4 grand with out spinning the tires,or the engine completely bogging down ? The chevy auto's are alot better,but you sure his converter hasnt been changed. He shouldnt be able to rev that high,I wouldnt think. Have you check to see if it makes a difference manually shifting ?

  13. #13
    01FR500 is offline
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    Yeah, he can rev it all the way to 4K rpm (or more if he wants) it's something with the computer, won't let it spin. I don't think his torque converter has been changed but his dad is the manager of a transmission parts service (TPS) if anyone is familiar. I don't think shifting manually will make much of a difference since I have that programmer. It shifts at 5250-5100 rpm and chirps the tires. I will try it though.
    2003 GT
    H&R SuperSports l Tokico Illumina dampers l Maximum Motorsports c/c plates l MM XL SFCs l MGW shifter l other goodies...

  14. #14
    MustangManiac is offline
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    Nah man, don't try to shift manually. The programmer already firmed you shifts and if you do it by hand then it takes longer for it to shift.

  15. #15
    bmputz is offline
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    He has more done to it than just exhaust. It's that or you can't drive. You should be the one with 1-2 car lengths. 4k rpms is bs in my opinion. He is launching at 4k and doesn't spin the tires??? Don't think that is possible........Sorry

  16. #16
    91GT347 is offline
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    I agree with bmputz. I dont think it's possible without a transbrake. If he did launch at 4000 he would just roast the tires. If he bought the car used ,theres no telling what has been done as well. Your programmer took care of the shifting,but it doesnt help your converter any. The Camaro converter still has alot better torque multiplication than a stock ford converter. So he may just be getting more to the ground.

  17. #17
    01FR500 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmputz
    He has more done to it than just exhaust. It's that or you can't drive. You should be the one with 1-2 car lengths. 4k rpms is bs in my opinion. He is launching at 4k and doesn't spin the tires??? Don't think that is possible........Sorry
    The reason he can launch at such a high rpm has something to do with the Camaro's computer. It won't allow the tires to spin when it's being powerbraked. The only way he can make them spin is if he holds the brake and gas down, then lets off the brake compleatly, then when the car jumps a little smash the brake back down all while the gas is still on the floor. I've been in the car while he has launched it at 4K+ rpm, crazy take-off.
    I haven't raced him in a long time but now he has 275-40-18 tires on the rear compared to the 245s of when I raced him, no advantage to me. I've been trying to talk him into going to the drag strip on the 30th of March so he can get a true time slip. I will have a lower E.T. than him.
    2003 GT
    H&R SuperSports l Tokico Illumina dampers l Maximum Motorsports c/c plates l MM XL SFCs l MGW shifter l other goodies...

  18. #18
    Psuedonym is offline
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    The 2001 V6 Camaros have ASR - A form of traction control. They can turn it off or on, it's a switch on the dash. My brother has one, I drive his Camaro a lot - The tires will not break loose unless it's turned off. That's why he can rev it so high and not break the tires loose. Get a manual.

  19. #19
    narshadda is offline
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    Why don't you guys switch up for a race. You drive the camaro and have him drive the steed. I am curious to see some time slips like you said. Either a dyno or a 1/4 mile.

    I have a 99 C5 Vette which granted, is a little different than a V6 Camaro and when I launch at more than 2K with traction control and power breaking, the car bogs a bit - doesn't take long to get power back up, but still you lose a bit while doing that on the vette. The V6 camaro is obviously a bit different.

  20. #20
    Droptop2001GT is offline
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    Why would the driver matter? They are both automatics. He's killing you on the launch if he's actually launching at 4k and dead-hooking. In near-equal cars, whoever wins on the launch wins the race.

    If you want to get faster, take those heavy 18" wheels off of the car. Going from 18" Cobra R wheels to 15" Prostars netted me well over half a second and almost 6mph in the 1/4 mile, and likely would have been even more had I gotten a higher launch off of the torque converter. I got one run, and didn't have time to stall it up for that pass, but still got a new best by a longshot.
    -Ryan D.

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  21. #21
    01FR500 is offline
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    I only have a week left in this semester and when I get home I will try and borrow one of my friend's wet of D/Rs and Skinnies. It would be nice to see if it makes a difference. The tires that are on my friends Camaro are 255-35-18 Chrome C5 rims, about equal in weight to mine. My I knocked off 2 tenths off my previous 1/4 mile time. I think that if I raced him again I would take him.
    2003 GT
    H&R SuperSports l Tokico Illumina dampers l Maximum Motorsports c/c plates l MM XL SFCs l MGW shifter l other goodies...

  22. #22
    s3 roush is offline
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    Answer to your problem,get a V8.
    Sorry couldn't help myself.

  23. #23
    Riddick is offline
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    FR ger it retuned..50 not enough shot 100shot, just done tell him.....
    IM THE RIDDICK...

  24. #24
    terminal velocity is offline
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    Whats your settings on your diablo? 1500 and you start to spin? i can hold mine till about 2200 on a stock gt TQ. With my diablo i can make my tranny shift hard.....have you played with tranny settings or are they the generic diablo tune?

  25. #25
    01FR500 is offline
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    I haven't messed with it alot. The 1-2 shift is at 5250rpm, 2-3 @ 5200, and I'm not sure about the 3-4 but the OD is off durring a race anyway. I break traction on the 1-2 shift and sometimes on the 2-3 shift depending on factors. I have the torque modulation up 50% for the 1-2 shift. None of the settings are up to 100%. I cannot powerbrake it past 1500 without the tires starting to spin. However, for some reason I know that I don't have the brake all the way down. So maybe If I pressed the brake down further the back tires would hold untill higher rpms. Also though, I spin durring the launch, whether it be at idle (~750-1000rpm) or at the 1500 that I would normally launch at.
    My 60' times at the track are always about 2.32.
    2003 GT
    H&R SuperSports l Tokico Illumina dampers l Maximum Motorsports c/c plates l MM XL SFCs l MGW shifter l other goodies...

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