* JUDGED FACE-OFFS ARE ON HOLD *

[93ramvert]

To prove a point!

Chronologically, it's my understanding, Scott, that classes were created some time last night and judged competition was put on hold AFTER I had done my first judged face-off, so I don't really see your point.

And as far as who I challenged: I challenged a person who BEAT me, no whooped me in the regular face-off..by 16 votes! The fact that you and the judges are concerned about this just simply proves my point (it's just a shame that many of you are finally admitting it) that the regular face-offs a.k.a. buddy systems are horribly unfairly and bogus. So if I had to prove that, so be it. It hasn't been about the cars for a long time but how many friends you have, that's why I refuse to do them anymore...and I STILL get people I don't know PM'ing me asking for votes.

I have a strong sense of fair play and competition, Scott. So is it really fair for anyone whose car just rocks and who has invested mucho bucks (that goes for your as well) to take a loss by a lightly modified or stock car and have it indellibly inked on his or her record? Again, is it wrong to want a rematch with a person who initially challenged you, polliticked for votes (if this is the case-obviously the judges think so or they wouldn't be rebuking me), and now as a result you have a loss on your record cause someone couldn't play fairly? Why not take the loss off our records? And that goes for everyone who has suffered the same fate.

I've been around here for a while, and this is one of the main reasons I stay away . So I hope you understand my logic, Scott. If you want to see "fair" competition, go after the people who have recklessly abused the system. Wipe out face-off records and start over. But there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to clear my car's reputation. And as long as that loophole exists, I don't see a problem with it. I've been to plenty of real-time car shows in competition, as I'm sure you have. And the rules differ vastly. When you compete in a "Ford Mustang" class, for example, all sorts of Mustangs roll in. The sponsor of the event usually has a limited budget and decides beforehand what the classes will be, even before the cars enter. Sometimes they'll split it out. But the judges here have a unique opportunity. They are not limited by fixed budgets. They can create all the classes they want. If the judges on this site take offense to the way things currently are (they created the system, not us) then change it! Don't assume everyone thinks the same way you do. And certainly don't lambast us when you haven't clarified your own policies. Start by defining what best "overall" car means.

When people see my record, I want them to know that when it was compiled correctly, I beat so-and-so person or I lost. I just don't see anything wrong with wanting things to be done honorably.

So if you're worried about who me or anyone else will compete against, get those classes right. As for me, I'll take on anyone if it's done fairly. Put me in the custom class. Put me in any class you want. I'm not being belligerent, just looking at this logically, and being a little forceful. I hope you can appreciate my honesty. Thanks for listening.

trey3.8

Bravo nicely said!!!

[blown93feature]

ok, here it is in a nut shell. Trey I see your point in the old school faceoffs and I had said it time and time again that the outcomes were not what they should have been so this judged deal is a welcome change in my book. I believe that it wasn't only your face off that sparked the change in the way things are done in the face offs but just another example of what not to do when it comes to the face offs. I personaly like having my ride in a class so that it levels the playing field a little more and makes it more interesting for all. The other part of this is that people are running away with points because of the obvious winner and no real rules to speak of so I believe your going to see changes in how things are done.

I also believe that by having guide lines for not only judges but the members to as to how they set up there face off and how there judged will be a benifit to everyone especialy if people are in a class that won't have a automatic blow out plus I think people should be held accountable for going after other members sites that don't have good quality pixs for the judges to go by. I believe this will also make it more difficult for members to just go after the obvious winner because both sites will display adequit photos and the wagering crowd will take more time in the decision as to which car they put there points on.

I would say that if people took the time to think about what they're angry about before they type than things wouldn't get out of hand, or feelings being hurt because of miscomunication.
With that being said I would say that having 5 different classes to be placed in is a good thing and if you think that you want to be put in the next class up than asked to be put in there and if you don't do so well than there is no one to blame than yourself right.

[crimsonblack]

Removed my post - Never mind. Sorry

[Scott 01Cobra]

ok, here it is in a nut shell. Trey I see your point in the old school faceoffs and I had said it time and time again that the outcomes were not what they should have been so this judged deal is a welcome change in my book. I believe that it wasn't only your face off that sparked the change in the way things are done in the face offs but just another example of what not to do when it comes to the face offs. I personaly like having my ride in a class so that it levels the playing field a little more and makes it more interesting for all. The other part of this is that people are running away with points because of the obvious winner and no real rules to speak of so I believe your going to see changes in how things are done.

I also believe that by having guide lines for not only judges but the members to as to how they set up there face off and how there judged will be a benifit to everyone especialy if people are in a class that won't have a automatic blow out plus I think people should be held accountable for going after other members sites that don't have good quality pixs for the judges to go by. I believe this will also make it more difficult for members to just go after the obvious winner because both sites will display adequit photos and the wagering crowd will take more time in the decision as to which car they put there points on.

I would say that if people took the time to think about what they're angry about before they type than things wouldn't get out of hand, or feelings being hurt because of miscomunication.
With that being said I would say that having 5 different classes to be placed in is a good thing and if you think that you want to be put in the next class up than asked to be put in there and if you don't do so well than there is no one to blame than yourself right.

Yep - well said ....

[trey3.8]

No disagreements here that the system needs work.

[blueponygirl]

Well I turned my site off to judged face offs...before this post. I just saw how lopsided the wagering was against me!! I don't mind being challenged, don't get me wrong!! but I really don't expect my car to win any judged events, I don't really have my website set up for stuff like that. I like the idea of not having cars like Trey's with tons and tons of money in it against stock cars like my mine!!!

[warrenlow0]

thay allare sweet but mine is a little tricky LOL

[lxexpress]

this is a thought....why not give EVERYONE THE OPTION to accept or decline any and all face offs,judged or otherwise???? that way you can check out the other persons site first before you accept,and then if you think you got lots for the opponent(and YOU think you can win) accept...if you think your gonna get your ass kicked,go to the decline mode and move on...that way the only person to blame for your loss is YOU.because you put yourself in that situation.NOBODY ELSE!!!!!!!!!seriously if you go to a live car show and you're competing against other people if you own a 2000 gt with tinted windows and a stereo and another person shows up in a 75000.00 cobra that hasnt missed a single trick.do you expect to beat him??? not if you have 1/2 a brain in your head,chances are he's there because he has spent the time and effort building a show quality ride that deserves to win,most car shows i go to have two basic classes stock or modified and then different generation classes.i dont see the need for all these different classes. the members at the top of the pole..(you know who you are) if you are picking on someone of a way lesser car then you need to rethink your way of earning points...on the other hand for the members that are working their way up the ladder and you snag some wins along the way good for you...just a quick note as i was reading over what i wrote,any examples given here are purely that and nothing else..also i dont mean the people who are at the top of the rankings either.....

[Slow 5.0]

I think the catagory system is a great idea but I think a few people right now are getting misranked in catagories that they shouldn't be in. You have people with similar mods placed in different catagories. You have people with lots of exterior/interior mods and little performance mods in higher areas that clearly suggest a lower modded status. You have a car that is listed as moderately modded that should be listed in heavy or custom.

What are the criteria for each of the modded catagories, knowing that stock and custom are self explained?

[2003BlackSVT]

By the looks of it it's still under the works. I would say they have gone and classified the ones that have been in faceoffs already judging by the list so far.

Nope, hadn't done me yet.....so I signed up to be classsified....much better idea J.... keeps it a lil fairer

[2003BlackSVT]

this is a thought....why not give EVERYONE THE OPTION to accept or decline any and all face offs,judged or otherwise???? that way you can check out the other persons site first before you accept,and then if you think you got lots for the opponent(and YOU think you can win) accept...if you think your gonna get your ass kicked,go to the decline mode and move on...that way the only person to blame for your loss is YOU.because you put yourself in that situation.NOBODY ELSE!!!!!!!!!seriously if you go to a live car show and you're competing against other people if you own a 2000 gt with tinted windows and a stereo and another person shows up in a 75000.00 cobra that hasnt missed a single trick.do you expect to beat him??? not if you have 1/2 a brain in your head,chances are he's there because he has spent the time and effort building a show quality ride that deserves to win,most car shows i go to have two basic classes stock or modified and then different generation classes.i dont see the need for all these different classes. the members at the top of the pole..(you know who you are) if you are picking on someone of a way lesser car then you need to rethink your way of earning points...on the other hand for the members that are working their way up the ladder and you snag some wins along the way good for you...just a quick note as i was reading over what i wrote,any examples given here are purely that and nothing else..also i dont mean the people who are at the top of the rankings either.....

Also well said

[Scott 01Cobra]

this is a thought....why not give EVERYONE THE OPTION to accept or decline any and all face offs,judged or otherwise???? that way you can check out the other persons site first before you accept,and then if you think you got lots for the opponent(and YOU think you can win) accept...if you think your gonna get your ass kicked,go to the decline mode and move on...that way the only person to blame for your loss is YOU.because you put yourself in that situation.NOBODY ELSE!!!!!!!!!seriously if you go to a live car show and you're competing against other people if you own a 2000 gt with tinted windows and a stereo and another person shows up in a 75000.00 cobra that hasnt missed a single trick.do you expect to beat him??? not if you have 1/2 a brain in your head,chances are he's there because he has spent the time and effort building a show quality ride that deserves to win,most car shows i go to have two basic classes stock or modified and then different generation classes.i dont see the need for all these different classes. the members at the top of the pole..(you know who you are) if you are picking on someone of a way lesser car then you need to rethink your way of earning points...on the other hand for the members that are working their way up the ladder and you snag some wins along the way good for you...just a quick note as i was reading over what i wrote,any examples given here are purely that and nothing else..also i dont mean the people who are at the top of the rankings either.....

Ya, well said ....

But I don't know what idiots would spend $75,000 on a Cobra .....

[lxexpress]

Ya, well said ....

But I don't know what idiots would spend $75,000 on a Cobra .....

my thoughts exactly.hahahahahahahaha

[lxexpress]

well i'm on here...i dont see anybody finding fault with my idea yet???????anybody got a better idea???lets hear some input from everyone........

[OZ98Cobra]

this is a thought....why not give EVERYONE THE OPTION to accept or decline any and all face offs,judged or otherwise???? that way you can check out the other persons site first before you accept,and then if you think you got lots for the opponent(and YOU think you can win) accept...if you think your gonna get your ass kicked,go to the decline mode and move on...that way the only person to blame for your loss is YOU.because you put yourself in that situation.NOBODY ELSE!!!!!!!!!seriously if you go to a live car show and you're competing against other people if you own a 2000 gt with tinted windows and a stereo and another person shows up in a 75000.00 cobra that hasnt missed a single trick.do you expect to beat him??? not if you have 1/2 a brain in your head,chances are he's there because he has spent the time and effort building a show quality ride that deserves to win,most car shows i go to have two basic classes stock or modified and then different generation classes.i dont see the need for all these different classes. the members at the top of the pole..(you know who you are) if you are picking on someone of a way lesser car then you need to rethink your way of earning points...on the other hand for the members that are working their way up the ladder and you snag some wins along the way good for you...just a quick note as i was reading over what i wrote,any examples given here are purely that and nothing else..also i dont mean the people who are at the top of the rankings either.....

IMO, this is the solution - members should always have the right and ability to refuse face off challenges - it has been suggested many many times, but for some strange reason was not given a go?

I see some potential issues with the classification system - it is overly simplistic to just have a scale of how modified a car is from stock to custom - for example, how would my Cobra be classified? It is a stock body, stock interior, stock engine, and it has a long list of suspension and safety mods to make it suitable for road course use, but the only telltale signs of that are the slightly lower ride height and a roll bar. So assuming it ends up in the "moderately modified class" and ends up challenged by another "moderately modified" member who has opted for appearance mods over handling mods - who is going to win a "best overall car" face off? The appearance modded car of course!

Also, lumping cars in classes makes it impossible for someone with a relatively stock car but a great GS website to challenge someone with a heavily modded car and have the face off judged on website presentation alone?

So what do you do? Have different class systems for performance and show oriented cars? Can't see that working either unless you have those who have both performance and appearance mods on their rides to been in 2 classes? That's starting to get complicated?

So my 2 bits worth is that if you must have a classification system of some type, make it only auto acceptance for your class or above, but add the ability for class mismatch challenges to be accepted or denyed manually. Personally, I would prefer not to have any classes and just add the ability to accept or deny all face offs period - you could have the choice to configure your face off settings as auto accept all, manual, or deny all.

[tobedeleted_blnpony05]

IMO, this is the solution - members should always have the right and ability to refuse face off challenges - it has been suggested many many times, but for some strange reason was not given a go?

I see some potential issues with the classification system - it is overly simplistic to just have a scale of how modified a car is from stock to custom - for example, how would my Cobra be classified? It is a stock body, stock interior, stock engine, and it has a long list of suspension and safety mods to make it suitable for road course use, but the only telltale signs of that are the slightly lower ride height and a roll bar. So assuming it ends up in the "moderately modified class" and ends up challenged by another "moderately modified" member who has opted for appearance mods over handling mods - who is going to win a "best overall car" face off? The appearance modded car of course!

Also, lumping cars in classes makes it impossible for someone with a relatively stock car but a great GS website to challenge someone with a heavily modded car and have the face off judged on website presentation alone?

So what do you do? Have different class systems for performance and show oriented cars? Can't see that working either unless you have those who have both performance and appearance mods on their rides to been in 2 classes? That's starting to get complicated?

So my 2 bits worth is that if you must have a classification system of some type, make it only auto acceptance for your class or above, but add the ability for class mismatch challenges to be accepted or denyed manually. Personally, I would prefer not to have any classes and just add the ability to accept or deny all face offs period - you could have the choice to configure your face off settings as auto accept all, manual, or deny all.

I agree...some of the stangs in my class are modded different...I have chose at this point to go for looks not speed...so if I challenge someone the is go and not show how will that work. That IMO will come down to the personal opinion of the judge...what do they like better? you are all go and I am show...who would win???

[J]

The only time auto acceptance came into affect with the old system was when a person with less rank points challenged someone with more rank points. This was to allow a totally astonishing NEW user stang to compete with our 'older' members. The new user has virtually no rank points and would prolly not be able to find a face-off opponent who would accept his astonishing ride.

With the new system you can challenge anyone in your class or above but are not allowed to go out of your class... for any reason.

After the class check... it checks for points.. just like the old system.

But this is up for debate.

[J]

They are weighted the same.... if you have more go then they have show... you win

[Scott 01Cobra]

Well OZ ....

I answered your concern on the previous page when I suggested that a car should be able to challenge ANY car providing it is in a specific area, and as long as a judge approves the challenge. For example me and you going head to head with website. That type of thing. Or me being able to challenge TREY to an interior class. That sort of thing. I agree that overall car should be as it is.

[Sexi_Lil_Stang04]

I was put under the stock category.. My car isnt necesarily stock.. There are some mods done

[Scott 01Cobra]

I was put under the stock category.. My car isnt necesarily stock.. There are some mods done

That sounds like enough to be in the next one up. Just barely though - you are right on the fence in my opinion. There will be cars in the next class with more mods done - you'll have it tough with some of them. But hey, more fun that way right?

Your next mod will be ...... Lowering springs????

[YsOffcr]

this is a thought....why not give EVERYONE THE OPTION to accept or decline any and all face offs,judged or otherwise????

I think this would solve all b*tchin', complainin', moanin', and whinin' about the face offs. Simple and straightforward, like it has been stated before this has been suggested and never been tried.

[electricgreen]

seriously if you go to a live car show and you're competing against other people if you own a 2000 gt with tinted windows and a stereo and another person shows up in a 75000.00 cobra that hasnt missed a single trick.do you expect to beat him??? not if you have 1/2 a brain in your head,chances are he's there because he has spent the time and effort building a show quality ride that deserves to win,most car shows i go to have two basic classes stock or modified and then different generation classes.i dont see the need for all these different classes. the members at the top of the pole..(you know who you are) if you are picking on someone of a way lesser car then you need to rethink your way of earning points...on the other hand for the members that are working their way up the ladder and you snag some wins along the way good for you...just a quick note as i was reading over what i wrote,any examples given here are purely that and nothing else..also i dont mean the people who are at the top of the rankings either.....

If it were a judged show, it would be entirely possible if the judging was not lopsided towards $ spent. A judged show basically judges the clean factor-however, keeping that in mind, it would depend on the class. If that Cobra was in a stock class, the GT would likely win, due to the points deduction for mods. In a modded class, it would be an even field. I once tied with a Boss 302 for 2nd in a judged show with my V6. I'm quite sure the Boss was worth a lot more than my car, but they were both stock (I think the Boss was restored to stock, but that's not really important). The money and mods shouldn't count, unless the mods are sloppy (unpainted pieces, poorly installed, etc).

That's why I said this was going to be hard to figure out when it was announced. Without being able to personally see a car, they have to be arbitarary in deciding certain factors. Techincally, unless the title mentioned mods/modded, they should not even figure into the decision. Otherwise, it's back to a participant judged type show configuration-with less participants to vote!

[J]

I think this would solve all b*tchin', complainin', moanin', and whinin' about the face offs. Simple and straightforward, like it has been stated before this has been suggested and never been tried.

This is why people who were challenged dont lose points, its the same idea.

[J]

JUDGED FACE-OFFS are LIVE.