Anomalies in the Face-Offs

[trey3.8]

Just thought I'd list some wierd things I'm noticing in the face-offs. If you can think of anything else, post them here.

1. Car A will lose to Car B. Car A will beat Car C. Then Car C will turn around and beat Car B, although no one has added anything to their cars. Strange judging logic.

2. A near-stock car will beat a modified car, and beat him bad.

3. Friendly face-offs are wagers just like any others. If it's friendly, shouldn't it be for "no points?"

4. In a face-off, a person will vote on one car and never even look at the other car. I know this, cause I've seen it happen to me. Shouldn't you visit both persons' sites to be fair?

[J]

LOL.. I even added Friendly wager as an option.

[Jim03svt]

Just thought I'd list some wierd things I'm noticing in the face-offs. If you can think of anything else, post them here.

1. Car A will lose to Car B. Car A will beat Car C. Then Car C will turn around and beat Car B, although no one has added anything to their cars. Strange judging logic.

2. A near-stock car will beat a modified car, and beat him bad.

3. Friendly face-offs are wagers just like any others. If it's friendly, shouldn't it be for "no points?"

4. In a face-off, a person will vote on one car and never even look at the other car. I know this, cause I've seen it happen to me. Shouldn't you visit both persons' sites to be fair?

There's the point I've been making all along Trey!
In a perfect world yes, folks would visit each competitor's site, take a close look at both cars and then vote for what 'THEY' consider to be the best car. Unfortunately it's not like that here in the real/virtual world. The face offs consist of voters who DO vote that way, but there are also voters who will vote for friends, or against people they think are rude, or for a cute girl OR guy, depending..lol Also, the term 'best car' is very subjective.. Best to whom? There are many who believe modifying a car is a sin. The Mustang Club Of America judges take points off for every modification they can see, UNLESS you're entered in the modified class. The face offs could be set up better, with different classes, with a 'reason you voted for or against this car' box, with a system of, once a member is IN a face off their guestbook messages and private messages are disabled till the face off is done, with a 'I decline this challange' box,..etc. (no one likes to have someone else's idea of what's fair shoved down their throat with no say in the matter.) The rules have to be fair for everyone across the board or it tends to cause problems. The Face Offs are a great idea, but the way they're set up (in MY opinion <-disclaimer..ha ha) causes too much bad air between members..

[ITLRUN]

You guys don't even want to hear what I've got to say about Face-offs here or other things but like everone says it's all for fun well sometimes it's not funny.

Oh one thing I would like to know is how do members get into duel face-offs ?? Ever time we have ever tried to face a member off who is in a face off we can't nor able to get into a duel.

[trey3.8]

I think it's just a coincidence about duel face-offs. Somebody challenges someone with a hundred points less, and that person accepts the challenge at the same time another challenge is underway.

Jim, you have some great points about how face-offs should be conducted. I like the idea about disabling the PM until it's over.

[trey3.8]

After hearing that Jim, I will never be joining the Mustang Club of America if they deduct points for modifying. What fun is it to sit around and look at a bunch of factory cars all the same? Modifications were the hallmark of such aftermarket connoiseurs like Steve Saleen and Carroll Shelby. I could understand not modifying an historic car cause they are rare and you're trying to keep up the original look. But looking at 10,000 2002 Ford Mustang GTs with no variation except the color is about as fun as watching paint dry. I could imagine the conversations:

Person A: Wow I like your yellow car.
Person B: Wow I like your yellow car too.
Person A: That sure is a nice GT!
Person B: Hey man, ditto!
Person A: So what do you have done to it?
Person B: Did you read the factory specs?
Person A: Well of course I did.
Person B: That's where it ends!
Person A: Awesome! Me too!
Person B: What's your name?
Person A: Dave!
Person B: No way! So is mine!!!

and so on...

Nothing is better than creativity ladies and gentlemen...

[02 GT Chick]

Disabling guestbooks would be nice during faceoffs.

I know that some people just want people to be aware that there is in fact a face off going on, but if you challenge another car or accept a face off, let the chips fall where they may. Don't spam up guestbooks with requests... most times it doesn't bother me. Just when the same people do it consistently....

It took me a little while to get used to the idea that just about anyone can challenge me without my approval, but that's fine. It kinda adds to the interest of the site, never knowing if you are going to be in a face-off or not....

[02 GT Chick]

But looking at 10,000 2002 Ford Mustang GTs with no variation except the color is about as fun as watching paint dry. I could imagine the conversations:

Person A: Wow I like your yellow car.
Person B: Wow I like your yellow car too.
Person A: That sure is a nice GT!
Person B: Hey man, ditto!
Person A: So what do you have done to it?
Person B: Did you read the factory specs?
Person A: Well of course I did.
Person B: That's where it ends!
Person A: Awesome! Me too!
Person B: What's your name?
Person A: Dave!
Person B: No way! So is mine!!!

and so on...

Nothing is better than creativity ladies and gentlemen...

LOL, too funny!

[trey3.8]

Yeah, but I'm getting beat in my face-off by a nearly stock GT right now. So I guess a lot of people like paint watching :P

[Rwest75]

Face offs are suppose to be for fun. its fun to win when the opponent is a worthy opponent. I could be an ass and challenge a lot of people who i know i can beat but is that really fun? I dont like the easy win blow outs, I like them close cause it could have very well swung the other way too. I think i can say with pretty much certainty that there are a lot of "Regulars" in the face offs, and that gets old seeing the same car day after day beating a lot of cars that they very well know they can take. If you Know your gonna beat another car, than whats the point. there are alot of face offs i feel are illegitamate cause they arent evenly matched. There is no fun in That, all its for is to "pad" the challengers record with an easy win and in no way is it a good measure of how awesome that car really is. I ve seen face offs that last 12 hours and are initiatede late at night and end mid morning with very few votes getting cast for either car. Someone suggested doing a handicapp and I think thats an excellent idea. If someone has a handicapp of 10 going into a round that they challenged someone who would be given the automatic 10 votes, or however many votes they would recieve due to the handicapp, then someone who challenged someone else to a 12 hour match that goes from 930PM to 930AM, might think twice about going into that face off cause there might not be enough people online to vote so that the person can make up the handicap and he may loose.

Ryan

[Rwest75]

[QUOTE=trey3.8]....... I could imagine the conversations:

Person A: Wow I like your yellow car.
Person B: Wow I like your yellow car too.
Person A: That sure is a nice GT!
Person B: Hey man, ditto!
Person A: So what do you have done to it?
Person B: Did you read the factory specs?
Person A: Well of course I did.
Person B: That's where it ends!
Person A: Awesome! Me too!
Person B: What's your name?
Person A: Dave!
Person B: No way! So is mine!!!

QUOTE]


Thats funny

Ryan

[Rwest75]

....... I could imagine the conversations:

Person A: Wow I like your yellow car.
Person B: Wow I like your yellow car too.
Person A: That sure is a nice GT!
Person B: Hey man, ditto!
Person A: So what do you have done to it?
Person B: Did you read the factory specs?
Person A: Well of course I did.
Person B: That's where it ends!
Person A: Awesome! Me too!
Person B: What's your name?
Person A: Dave!
Person B: No way! So is mine!!!

Thats funny

Ryan

[Jim03svt]

After hearing that Jim, I will never be joining the Mustang Club of America if they deduct points for modifying. What fun is it to sit around and look at a bunch of factory cars all the same? Modifications were the hallmark of such aftermarket connoiseurs like Steve Saleen and Carroll Shelby. I could understand not modifying an historic car cause they are rare and you're trying to keep up the original look. But looking at 10,000 2002 Ford Mustang GTs with no variation except the color is about as fun as watching paint dry. I could imagine the conversations:

Person A: Wow I like your yellow car.
Person B: Wow I like your yellow car too.
Person A: That sure is a nice GT!
Person B: Hey man, ditto!
Person A: So what do you have done to it?
Person B: Did you read the factory specs?
Person A: Well of course I did.
Person B: That's where it ends!
Person A: Awesome! Me too!
Person B: What's your name?
Person A: Dave!
Person B: No way! So is mine!!!

and so on...

Nothing is better than creativity ladies and gentlemen...

MCA does have a modified class.. I was just commenting about their rules regarding modified cars in UNmodified classes. Even bone stock Mustangs have to be careful to remove seat covers..etc. I guess my point was that I'd like to see the Face Offs handled more like that. Modified against modified, stock against stock, in certain classes based on body style..etc.
The idea of disabling the messengers would cut the BS down considerably. There would still be the folks who will call their friends or use AOL or Yahoo, but at least within the boundaries of GS it would be fair.
I happen to be a big fan of SOME modified cars. I also think some are way overdone, but that's just MY opinion. I love to see perfectly restored classics too! The fact that people have varied taste in what they like and don't like is a good thing and that's why I think the competitions on here should be set up a little more realistically in that respect. (if possible)

Jim

[trey3.8]

I have no idea what people are looking for anymore Jim. I just got beat by a nearly stock GT by almost 12 votes. It doesn't happen under any other circumstance except on this site. So who knows about these face-offs. Anymore. The results tell me a lot of people love their stock cars.

[trey3.8]

I should stop whining.

[ITLRUN]

I have no idea what people are looking for anymore Jim. I just got beat by a nearly stock GT by almost 12 votes. It doesn't happen under any other circumstance except on this site. So who knows about these face-offs. Anymore. The results tell me a lot of people love their stock cars.

Trey if you get a chance look at the one's we have lost. This hole artical is the reason I am very couscous on who we face-off There has got to be something going on here Hell look at all of the members who just registure and don't even post anything about a car makes you wonder dosn't it well I need to shut up you all know my view.

[Rwest75]

I have noticed there are alot of new members who dont post a pic of there car. Makes ya wonder doesnt it.

Ryan

[trey3.8]

Ryan,

I guess you're right. The kind of validation I get on the streets and at the car shows should be enough. I honestly always get people pulling up and asking me about my car so much that it can get annoying. People break their necks to see me in their rearview mirror. I've had the un-enthusiasts who don't know Mustangs ask me if mine was a 2005. So lots of positive attention. So when you come to a place like this, you figure you'll clean up. Cause with the exception of about 20 to 30 cars I've seen, nothing is too eye-catching on this site. Not that there aren't good cars, but nothing too extreme. But hey, that's my preference I guess. I don't want to look like everyone else. I want to do things differently to make the car reflect my personality. For some people, buying the number one selling sports car in America is enough to individualize them. But that's an oxymoron to me. If it sells the best, that means there is a lot of them. If there's a lot of them out there, that means you have to do more to be individualistic.

If you look at the top 50 on this site, I for one can't make sense of some of the cars in front of me or some of the cars below me. I've seen a lot of stock mustangs with light mods out there that I don't even turn to look at twice. I mean come on, there are Roush convertible's under me in their rankings and a couple flamed GTs that would clean up at many car shows and be attention grabbers. They look like magazine cars in fact. There are a couple of modifieds that I know costs 1000s of dollars to complete but are so far below in the rankings, they'll never get a fair shake. So how are stangs with a set of Alteeza lights and wheel packages and maybe some aftermarket exhausts cleaning up on this site? How many times do you see those out and about and don't even flinch? It was funny, in the last face-off, sublimegt even emailed me and said he couldn't believe he beat me with all the work and modifications I've done. I think some people immediately disregard mine because I'm a V6 and instinctively vote for the GT, forgetting that my horsepower is up there as well. I guess if I weren't passionate about this hobby and my own efforts I wouldn't care. But I know it can become whining too, so I need to be careful. However, if enough people think the system is unfair, maybe there is some merit to my objections.

[storm7127]

The idea of turning off the guestbooks during a face off I think is a bad idea. So if someone does a face off for 48 hours, they can't communicate with any members until it's over? Get real! What I think would help is hiding the tally. If if someone knows they are down they are going to be pounding guestbooks etc trying to catch up! If they can't see who is winning or that they are losing they will be less likely to be punding guestbooks. Same with the tournies and the car shows. Post the vote totals at the end with the results. I think this would help alot!

[storm7127]

Maybe even leave how many has voted but just not who they voted for...

[trey3.8]

That is an excellent idea, storm. Only problem I forsee is a "paranoid population" on this site who thinks they might be always losing, and to be safe rather than sorry, they now super spam PM everyone they know, cause they can't rest comfortably until they know they win.

[93ramvert]

I think turning off questbooks is a bad Idea as well. This is the only way I can talk to a few members on this site, yeah I could prob. go an try to get there email address, but hell what about some of the newbies that end up n face-offs within there first week, now I can't tell them that I ranked thier car, and what I liked about it, and hey come to my site and check my car out.

As far as the face-offs go, I just lose bottom line, Again it just never happens that a Fox Mustang challenges me to a face-off, Why? I don't know, I know that there are many on this site that could beat me hands down, then there are some that would be a good run. But if you look at all my face-offs it's all New Age Mustangs and I have yet to win against one even yours TREY with your V6. AGAIN I'LL SAY IT THE NEW AGE GUY'S THAT ARE CHALLENGING ME ARE GOING FOR THE EASY POINTS. Its no surprise look at the trend New Age Mustangs wim over the old school. I've just given up on trying to get some fair way to do this cause no one is listening the only thing you can do is take the losses, I know it sucks look at my record.

As far as the top 50 go, the problem is that many members on the site will not go and just rank a car, they need to be asked to do it. I have voted on EVERY car on GOTSTANG (That's over 500 now) and I've only gotten 270 ranks in return, that's with me asking them to please rank me when they come check out my site. Alot of times they'll come then not vote. So if the guy with a roush is number 120 and is actively out looking for ranking points he'll only get them every once and a while which is why he won't climb the ladder. My car isn't the ethird best on the website, but I have been active in voting for others cars which in return has gotten me the 270 Ranks, does my car belong int the top 50, I think so, but someone else may not, my top 50 will be different form your top 50 TREY, mine would consist of many FOX bodied notches and a bunch of 94-2003 Cobras, yours may consist of all V6's and some modded GT's. Why because you spend 1000's of dollars on your car make you better than a person who can't spend that money on their car, it's shown in the face-offs that you may not be. I'd love to do more mods, I just can't afford it.

[trey3.8]

Oh, I agree with you entirely. It all comes down to money. If I gave you a check for 100,000 dollars right now, you'd build such a spectacular car and I'd bet the way this site is set up, you'd still find a way to lose. But with my mortgage and a baby on the way, the wife has cut the purse strings considerably. I've been very blessed to do what I have done. But I'm probably seeing the end of it for a while.

Also, I want to make this clear: I don't think I'm a "better person" than someone else on this site because I've put 1000s of dollars into my car. I think that's a bit presumptuous on your part as you don't even know me. I get passionate about things, but (I hope) never at the expense of hurting anyone or making them feel less of what God has given them the capacity to be. My philosophy concerning cars is this: I do think that if two people are given the same car, the one who has had the ability (whether through sheer luck, benefit, or hard work, etc.) should win. Furthermore, no one really has any idea how a person came about his money to build his car. Maybe that person inherited a fortune or holds down two jobs to make it work. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter, we're judging cars here, not people. So turning it into a moral issue is completely outside the scope of what we're here for. I don't know where you got the idea I hinted I was better than anyone else. The fact of the matter is, this hobby requires, money, I've been blessed to have it recently, I'm not bragging about it, I appreciate every opportunity I've had to make this car what it is, and I know my source comes from Jesus. And I know it could be gone in an instant as well. At times, I wish it were gone because it can become addictive, and the God of heaven has called us all out of such addictions.

I've also never had a nice car before this one. I always had beaters: a 1979 mustang that hardly ran, a four-door 80-something cavalier that was smashed in an accident, a couple years without a car while I worked at an inner city discipleship ministry, and a dodge neon. So I've been on both sides.

I find it informative to learn that a lot of you guys have problems with different facets of the site. It tells me that my problem is just one of many. But the fact that I have invested the money and still lose is what I find most strange. Like you said, "if you had the money..." So what happens when you have put the money into it and you still lose? Are you just putting the money into the wrong places? I try to do things tastefully on my car, but in the end, there is no accounting for taste. I guess people want to see more under the hood. Or a "GT" on rear. Who knows. But are they really even reading the mod lists? I mean my car can keep up with stock GTs, at least I think it can. The cars that beat me don't have nearly the mods I do. Again, if you think your stigma is the foxbody, then mine is certainly the V6. Actually, I have no affinity for the engine type, only the body type. So my list would not consist of all V6s. For me, I feel that the 99-04 is the most aggressive, inspiring, and stylish body type ever produced by Ford. I'm prejudice of course! But the sales numbers would agree. It was a very successful run, I believe, in the history of the company. Primarily the main reason they could introduce and restyle the 05 Mustang, and not close the curtains like Pontiac did on their sports car.

Also, the suggestion to turn off the guestbook was only during a face-off, not entirely. You could talk to your friends while you're not in a face-off. Turning off the PMs and the vote results, will make it like a true judging competition, not a fly-by-wire event where you get to see your results in realtime.

I hope that gives you a little insight into my philosophy on cars, who I am, and my own thoughts on judging.

[93ramvert]

[QUOTE=trey3.8]

#1 Also, I want to make this clear: I don't think I'm a "better person" than someone else on this site because I've put 1000s of dollars into my car. I think that's a bit presumptuous on your part as you don't even know me.

#2 Also, the suggestion to turn off the guestbook was only during a face-off, not entirely. You could talk to your friends while you're not in a face-off. Turning off the PMs and the vote results, will make it like a true judging competition, not a fly-by-wire event where you get to see your results in realtime.
QUOTE]

On #1, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to single YOU out, I really didn't mean it that way, believe me I may be jealous of the money that certain people may spend on certain hobbies but I think it's good for them. I meant it in a general scenario. Just because someone spends more money on Mods for a car doesn't mean that a car shoud win over another. We all will vote different ways, you agreed to that. I lose against stock 03 GT's and mild modded V6's, my car isn't plain Jane by any means, god knows money has been put into it. The voters vote for what they like not who put more money or who has more mods. If you want to be voted on the amount of mods go up against someone with a similiar amount and type and put the title as "who has the best /most modded stang"

On #2, They shouldn't be turned off period, it's hard enough for me to go around ad touching base with all the newe people coming on to the site, nevermind having to remember to come back possibly 8-48 hours later to say hello or are you heading to the show this weekend. If your having to pimp for votes your most likely going to lose anyway. Ask me I know But seriously I think shutting down communications between members is bad news.

Sorry Trey didn't mean to offend you

[trey3.8]

Not a problem at all. And I'm not offended. Just wanted to clear things up. Thanks for being candid about your feelings. I think if we can be honest with one another, we're one step further in making this thing the best system for all involved.