Judged Faceoff 625

[J]

http://www.gotstang.com/jfaceoffs.php?faceoffid=625

Ive had 1 complaint about the results of this face-off. To me it looks like dapack has put just as much work into his stang as hernasty... and I love hernasty's car.

just trying to figure out what you guys think...

I dont think anything needs to be done here.

[onebad95]

True, Dapack has a very nice car, but hernasty has this one. Look at the whole package J. Interior, a little cleaner and smoother looking enginebay. By that I mean it flow's better. Again, not bashing dapack by any means, just that I think the judges are wrong. Take a look at the betting gap on this face off. obviously there are a lot of people that see the same things I saw. yes, I'm pissed my streak is over. This should still be corrected in the same manner that your face off with mustanglisa was corrected.

[YsOffcr]

Why should you it change because someone complained about the results? I lost one I didn't feel I should have but the judges felt differently and eventhough I didn't like it I didn't expect it to be changed. Maybe the majority of the people wagering felt different, but if it was up to the majority to make the decision it wouldn't be a Judged Face Off it would be a Face Off. I feel if your going to make this one vanish, then I would like to see my last JFO gone also. Fair is fair, the judges are here to judge not to make a decision based on what the majority thinks. Maybe the two Judges that voted for dapack like the 94-98 generation better than the fox body. I personally didn't wager on this one because it was too close to call, both are nice in there own way.
Not to change the subject, but what happened to the JFO with ylwfevr and onebad95?

[lxexpress]

True, Dapack has a very nice car, but hernasty has this one. Look at the whole package J. Interior, a little cleaner and smoother looking enginebay. By that I mean it flow's better. Again, not bashing dapack by any means, just that I think the judges are wrong. Take a look at the betting gap on this face off. obviously there are a lot of people that see the same things I saw. yes, I'm pissed my streak is over. This should still be corrected in the same manner that your face off with mustanglisa was corrected.
i totally agree with charlie too.it would be nice if judge 3 gave a reason for judging the way they did,just"thats the way i voted")????the judges earn points for this..i think they should earn them also.the betting gap was huge as also mentioned.hard to believe all those people missed something that the judges saw.

[YsOffcr]

"two very nice cars...ysoffcr i love your car but i feel shaker has you by a head light."
Same Judge on my JFO and his reason?????????
Here's a suggestion-get a new judge and erase every JFO he has judged on. That's the only fair thing to do.

[lxexpress]

"two very nice cars...ysoffcr i love your car but i feel shaker has you by a head light."
Same Judge on my JFO and his reason?????????
Here's a suggestion-get a new judge and erase every JFO he has judged on. That's the only fair thing to do.
you have a point to some degree.but i think you should have asked then how he or she came to that conclusion.if they are earning say 25% of the points bet, i think its only reasonable to ask for an explanation if your not happy with the remarks they leave.i know i would.i think you are entitled to that.how will you ever improve on something if no one is telling you whats wrong??????

[crimsonblack]

Regardless you can't change the face-off or wipe it out. The judges voted. You can talk to the judges, but that's about it. Maybe go to five judges as Lee suggested in the blogs.

Beezer's face-off yesterday was the same way... almost everyone voted against the guy but he won and no one said a word against the popular vote. I like Wendy and I really like her car. But regardless of how I feel about it, I just believe it's wrong to change it. It will create more problems than it will solve. Like YS says, why this one and not his. Why not others and just this one... Just can't do it.

[HerNastyNotch]

first let me say that while i do not know who took issue with the results of this JFO, i very much appreciate the support.

i personally do NOT take exception to the fact that dapack won.

i think he has a beautiful (white!) mustang that he has put a lot of time, thought, sweat, and money into.

it was such a tight challenge that i don't know that i would have risked my betting streak on this one! lol

what i do take exception to is the judges' comments. if you are going to volunteer to make decisions about peoples' cars, then take a moment to realize that you should fully justify and explain your choices. the JFO participants fully deserve and should expect well thought out and plainly worded decisions.

having said this, i do not think judge 3 (the blue smurf) did a very good job at explaining his/her position and why. each of the other judges gave distinct reasons why they chose one car over another (whether you agree with it or not). that is the way it should be.

congratulations dapack!

[YsOffcr]

You make a great point Wendy. I felt the same way with my last face off, I just want to know why you came to that conclusion. This way people know what to improve upon. In reference to LX, all I wanted was an explaination of their conclusion, I don't care if I win or lose, just give me your reason. "wins by a headlight is a BS way of saying just because...". The judges are anoymous and even if I asked why I still would not get an explanation, so why waste the effort? They sure didn't when they type a comment like these.

[lxexpress]

maybe the the judges should have their points revoked if they dont give a reasonable explanation...if they were doing it for the good of their health..well thats one thing.being as they are getting points for doing it,well thats other!!!

[yosemiddysam]

Well I might as well butt in on this one. I love both cars and would not have voted the way I did had I not thought that one was better. I absolutely hate when judges dont give good reasons. I dont know if I would agree with changing it either though. I lost my win streak and 1200 points but I dont think that changing it would be worth the hassle it would cause. And I think we all know it would cause quite a bit of hate and miscontent. J I feel for you for having these choices. I would definately think about firing a few judges though. Exspecially ones that have goofed more than a few times.

[GW269]

I lost BIG time too here on this one.. 3100 points.!! According to what the judges say they want to see and how it is presented is how I voted. My streak was at 63 on a JFO with Beezer and SVTCobra and that killed my streak and the judges left me with a few questions so now I will approach the JFO's with much more caution. :ugh2:

[ylwfevr]

A JFO should NEVER be over turned. That is opening a door that you don't want to open. The way to fix something like this is to have a score card that the judges can use. This will put all the judges on the same page. You could also go to a 5 judge score card. How many times do you watch a boxing match and the guy you think will win doesnt. They NEVER go back and give it to the other guy.

My post has nothing to do with the two cars in this face off. It just about JFO overall

[ylwfevr]

Off Topic...Stay safe Dragpack69...My prayers are with you man!

[Roush8702]

I didnt vote on this one, but i thought i would add my 2 cents. I dont think the JFO should be overturned or changed, You are asking for one persons opinion on your vehicle.

I've been to many a car shows, most are judged by club members or someone the club thinks "knows cars". I'm sure I'm not the only one who after the trophys have been awarded, someone else in my class walks up to me and says "You got robbed" when I walk away empty handed. When you don't agree with the judges at a car show, you nod and go home. I doubt anyone has ever walked up to the judges at a car show and said "I disagree, I think so and so should have won, you should fix this" A judged face off is the basically the same thing. Its just the luck of the draw on judges.

Now it seems as though many streaks have been broken with this one, and from many of the posts alot of points were wagered and lost.

The JFO shows 38 wagers placed

11180 on HerNasty
1330 on dapack

Ya have Yosemiddy wagering 1200, and GW at 3100, 4300 points from 2 wagers/votes You have 36 other wagers, probally most not has high rollers.

Maybe this is more of a feature request, but also show the number of wager placed on each persons car. You may find that more ppl wagered on dapack then HerNasty just with smaller wager amounts

[Nicoleb3x3]

roush8702, that was one of the most intelligent posts I've read, well said.

[ylwfevr]

yea it was a good one nicole...he should get points for it lol

[1hotpony]

Yea, I've been to to many car shows that where very biass,And when I do see it that way, I make shure to take notes on not returning.When friends vote on friends and clubs vote on there club members cars at car shows! Well it's just wrong! Why go to a car show,if you know before hand that it's fixed... Earlier this year I went to a NMRA event that the guy running the show was awarded a trophy and also a photo shoot as one of the prizes. Hek,I got beat by a factory yellow mustang with black vinal stripes and chrome bullets. Now if thats not fixed I don't know what is. All I'm saying is judgeing these JFO's isn't as easy as some people think. Myself I try to look at each aspect of the car over and over. and then I might miss something. As long as a judge is honest,and doesn't vote on someone just because there friends, But judges the car it self. To be an honest judge you can't vote on something that is not there. If the mods says there's something there,but no picture to prove it . then it can't be considered. Just remember we are all human and we are intitled to misstakes. as long as it isn't done delibertly. :thanks:

[electricgreen]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I thought this was supposed to be based on certian criteria when this was started-not just opinions of the judges. It seems like it's just like the normal face off's but with only three voters. I haven't "played" in a while an no one has challenged me so it's not like I'm speaking about one I've been in recently or something-it's not sour grapes. I read the comments though and see a lot of "I liked this color/body style/mod better on so and so's car" and it just seems liekt he concept of "judged" is gone. In a true judged show, opinion doesn't matter-is it clean, is it stock (for a stock class)-so here, it should be based on clean, good pics showing proper angles, pics covering all aspects of the car...

To the person that thought a show was fixed because they got beat by a stock car-that's completely possible in a true judged show because it's not about how much bling or $ you have into the car. Maybe that car was cleaner or had more "points" items than you. And maybe it was fixed. I have beat much more expensive cars with more bling because mine was spotless-I do think it's funny when someone gets bent because my car cost me less and I beat them though.

[Nicoleb3x3]

I see more JFO judged correctly than not
as far as judges adding personal likes/dislikes; I've seen that maybe this is done when the cars are sooo close it's almost comes down to a tie breaker.

I aggree cleanliness goes a long way at shows
especially since a "show" is not about performance our how loud your exhaust is; or even what you truely run on the dyno. Performance mods may put in in a class; but it's usually what car is done "better" "cleaner" etc that wins a judge.

heck, my stang won a special fun ford award as a 4 banger; maybe spending the whole day before cleaning it top to bottom was the true reason why

[dapack69]

I'm just going to stay out of this.

[White Stang]

There is alot of good opinions in here. I agree that 5 judges would be better than 3. Constructive remarks on why they chose the stang they did is also good. I would say overall the judges have judged based on what was presented and overall are doing a good job. You can also expect personal taste to sway a descision in a close face off and that's fine. However I have seen some judges post they would vote against what they felt was the better stang because they felt the better stang was picking on weaker cars that are in the same class as them which is BS. If the judge feels that one stang is out of its league then do something to move it to the right classification. But I think criticizing a member challenging someone in his class behind the mask of a judge in his face off is weak. I have not seen this happen alot and it is definitly not the standard. And as far as I know these random attacks by judges may have been resolved behind the scenes. :lol: That's my personal opinion :attention :gso:

[crimsonblack]

Well said White. There are a lotof classification errors right now. Some type of reclassification is needed.

[Droptop2001GT]

I would appreciate a little more input from a judge as to why one car was selected over the other. A comment like "Both are great looking stangs but I am going with Car X for his/her mods" doesn't really help anyone. I don't mind losing, but how about at least letting me what you liked/disliked about both cars?

http://www.gotstang.com/jfaceoffs.php?faceoffid=655