* JUDGED FACE-OFFS ARE ON HOLD *

[J]

The judged face-offs are currently on HOLD.

The judges and I have determined that in order to have decent judged face-offs we will be requiring everyone to 'sign up' for classification to compete in the judged face-offs. When signing up you will be put on a list for the judges to review your site. Once they review your site you will be put into one of the five following classes.

Stock

Lightly Modified

Moderately Modified

Heavily Modified

Custom

So far the judges have reviewed the following people and put them into their appropriate classes.

Here is the link: http://www.gotstang.com/membersbyclass.php

The link to 'sign up' to be reviewed to compete in the judged face-offs is still in the works: http://www.gotstang.com/membersbyclass.php#signup


Once we have enough people classified, you will only be allowed to challenge people in your class or a higher class. This will no longer be determined by rank points.

We feel this will level the playing field EVEN MORE.

[stolenheron]

where and when can I sign up?

[auriansmustang]

where to sign up?

[Fastfordboy]

What determines where you are placed? Are there set guidelines for each class?

[blown93feature]

By the looks of it it's still under the works. I would say they have gone and classified the ones that have been in faceoffs already judging by the list so far.

[J]

LINK UPDATED: http://www.gotstang.com/membersbyclass.php#signup

[The Guardian]

So what is moderately modified?

[J]

More then just basic exterior interior and performance mods... usually all 3

[The Guardian]

So when I get my turbo or supercharger I can bounce up? When I get another five grand to spend on my stang I guess I will be moderately modified. :clap:
More then just basic exterior interior and performance mods... usually all 3

[J]

So when I get my turbo or supercharger I can bounce up? When I get another five grand to spend on my stang I guess I will be moderately modified. :clap:
Nah... my supercharger wasnt 5 Gs ;)

[trey3.8]

J,

Moderately modified, my car? You've got to be kidding me? I've tons of money invested. Perhaps no one has done as much work to their interiors so they don't know what it costs to do fiberglass work nowadays, not to mention electronics, etc. Bump me up into heavily modified at least. That way I don't have to hear anyone complain if I take on someone I'm not supposed to. :)

trey3.8

[coopdog21]

J,

Moderately modified, my car? You've got to be kidding me? I've tons of money invested. Perhaps no one has done as much work to their interiors so they don't know what it costs to do fiberglass work nowadays, not to mention electronics, etc. Bump me up into heavily modified at least. That way I don't have to hear anyone complain if I take on someone I'm not supposed to. :)

trey3.8
i think you should be in custom :clap:

[tobedeleted_blnpony05]

what about ppl with sponsors??? My sponsor donates only on Friday afternoons :lol: they should not be able to compete with anyone who does not have a sponsor...How far is this going to go??? I could not care less what class the judges put me in ..I don't know them and they have not seen my car...ppl will walk up to my stang and check it out they want me to pop the hood so they can look...that's what I care about and the fact that I have my car the way I want it. Some ppl are offended by the class that they have been put into and I don't blame them...if we are going by mod list and pics then they have a right to be upset...my.02 and J I wish I could get a s/c for my stang under 5K...still waiting for the prices to go down on the parts for the 05's...we pay double what everyone else pays it sucks!!! :diss: BTW I am always ready to do a face-off with anyone and I will not be whining about a loss.....

[wldponi03]

Just a quick question what about the ones waiting to be judged that we have points wagered on!!! Will they be judged or will it start from scratch...Just wondering!!!!

[J]

I will be setting up a section for people who have disagreements.. this will allow the judges to take a second look at your website. Remember we can only go on what is shown in the pictures.

[tobedeleted_blnpony05]

I will be setting up a section for people who have disagreements.. this will allow the judges to take a second look at your website. Remember we can only go on what is shown in the pictures.

I'm confused (nothing new right) ...can we do a best overall with ppl in our class as best over all or are we required to have pis of the undercarrage??? Mine is stock...so I will lose poins for that?? I need details!!!!! :thumpupn:

[Slow 5.0]

Cool, J. I would definately like mine reviewed. I'm in the lightly modified and I believe my 86' satisfy all performance, interior and exterior to be placed in moderate modified, even though the interior/exterior modification that were taken from factory parts from 79-82, and 87-93 mustangs.

[HookandLadder]

Mine's stock..........REALLY!.........it is!!! :lol:

[electricgreen]

I'm in agreement on my class! Since the greeen one's about as stock as a rock, lol. Works for me, I show in the stock classes when I go to "live" shows anyway.

[Scott 01Cobra]

Folks,

please realize that the classes were designed because the judges felt VERY STRONG CARS were taking on VERY weak cars. This wasn't fair but the judges were forced to pick the more show-worthy car and therefore reward them with usually 500 points. Look back at the comments and you will see they were pissed. So ..... now, a car in the custom class can not take on any other class for best overall car. However, if you are in a less modified class you can challenge a higher class.

I guess the question that comes to me is .... can someone challenge ANYONE if it is a specific class (NOT OVERALL). For example - I felt that J has done a great job on his exterior, so I challenged him to that - not overall car (I've obviously spent a lot more). It was more fooling around than anything - I think most of you know I don't typically do the challenges - or the hunts - I have fun being here and watching people progress. Or in the example of TREY, perhaps a higher classed car could challenge him to "Interior" - I think there should be allowances for this - but I also feel someone should approve this first.

J, perhaps there should be a "Waiting area" for those other challenges and if a judge approves the challenge then it goes through. This way those specific challenges can keep it interesting. Just and idea for you.

[Scott 01Cobra]

J,

Moderately modified, my car? You've got to be kidding me? I've tons of money invested. Perhaps no one has done as much work to their interiors so they don't know what it costs to do fiberglass work nowadays, not to mention electronics, etc. Bump me up into heavily modified at least. That way I don't have to hear anyone complain if I take on someone I'm not supposed to. :)

trey3.8


Yo Trey - if that's how you feel - IE: that your car should be in the heavily modified class ..... why did you just challenge someone who would certainly be in the Lightly modified class, to a face-off????? If I recall, the judges gave you a hard time about that!

[trey3.8]

To prove a point! :)

Chronologically, it's my understanding, Scott, that classes were created some time last night and judged competition was put on hold AFTER I had done my first judged face-off, so I don't really see your point.

And as far as who I challenged: I challenged a person who BEAT me, no whooped me in the regular face-off..by 16 votes! The fact that you and the judges are concerned about this just simply proves my point (it's just a shame that many of you are finally admitting it) that the regular face-offs a.k.a. buddy systems are horribly unfairly and bogus. So if I had to prove that, so be it. It hasn't been about the cars for a long time but how many friends you have, that's why I refuse to do them anymore...and I STILL get people I don't know PM'ing me asking for votes.

I have a strong sense of fair play and competition, Scott. So is it really fair for anyone whose car just rocks and who has invested mucho bucks (that goes for your as well) to take a loss by a lightly modified or stock car and have it indellibly inked on his or her record? Again, is it wrong to want a rematch with a person who initially challenged you, polliticked for votes (if this is the case-obviously the judges think so or they wouldn't be rebuking me), and now as a result you have a loss on your record cause someone couldn't play fairly? Why not take the loss off our records? And that goes for everyone who has suffered the same fate.

I've been around here for a while, and this is one of the main reasons I stay away :(. So I hope you understand my logic, Scott. If you want to see "fair" competition, go after the people who have recklessly abused the system. Wipe out face-off records and start over. But there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to clear my car's reputation. And as long as that loophole exists, I don't see a problem with it. I've been to plenty of real-time car shows in competition, as I'm sure you have. And the rules differ vastly. When you compete in a "Ford Mustang" class, for example, all sorts of Mustangs roll in. The sponsor of the event usually has a limited budget and decides beforehand what the classes will be, even before the cars enter. Sometimes they'll split it out. But the judges here have a unique opportunity. They are not limited by fixed budgets. They can create all the classes they want. If the judges on this site take offense to the way things currently are (they created the system, not us) then change it! Don't assume everyone thinks the same way you do. And certainly don't lambast us when you haven't clarified your own policies. Start by defining what best "overall" car means.

When people see my record, I want them to know that when it was compiled correctly, I beat so-and-so person or I lost. I just don't see anything wrong with wanting things to be done honorably.

So if you're worried about who me or anyone else will compete against, get those classes right. As for me, I'll take on anyone if it's done fairly. Put me in the custom class. Put me in any class you want. I'm not being belligerent, just looking at this logically, and being a little forceful. I hope you can appreciate my honesty. Thanks for listening.

trey3.8

[Scott 01Cobra]

I didn't mean to offend you ..... if I did.

I 100% agree about the regular face-offs. Why do you think I have NEVER entered one? I went in a few tourny's last summer and beat some cars but them lost to others. When I saw what I and others were losing to I reaized the buddy system is what it was all about, and I have only met a few on here - lol. It doesn't bother me though - if you accept it - it's fine.

It's like the participant voting at shows - I don't like them, although I usually do well, I hate seeing fantastic cars overlooked.

I certainly wasn't expecting your answer "To prove a point". You lost to your competitor in a regular face off. That's why you challenged him in the judged. That makes perfect sense to me. You certainly did prove your point. Nicely done BTW.

[trey3.8]

Absolutely no offense. I get passionate about this stuff, but I'm sure we all do :)

[24kmach]

At all the shows last year the term "modified" is a tough call. We all have different notions as to what "modified" is. One show will say you have up to three mods and your still in a stock class. What is a mod? Is different valve stem caps a mod? Most folks try to stay in a stock class. Small mods up to and including your chouce of wheels I think still leaves you in a stock class.Big mods as in blowers,gull wing doors, body kits,wild sound systems that use up the back seat,etc. put you in a modified class. :thanks:

[93ramvert]

To prove a point! :)

Chronologically, it's my understanding, Scott, that classes were created some time last night and judged competition was put on hold AFTER I had done my first judged face-off, so I don't really see your point.

And as far as who I challenged: I challenged a person who BEAT me, no whooped me in the regular face-off..by 16 votes! The fact that you and the judges are concerned about this just simply proves my point (it's just a shame that many of you are finally admitting it) that the regular face-offs a.k.a. buddy systems are horribly unfairly and bogus. So if I had to prove that, so be it. It hasn't been about the cars for a long time but how many friends you have, that's why I refuse to do them anymore...and I STILL get people I don't know PM'ing me asking for votes.

I have a strong sense of fair play and competition, Scott. So is it really fair for anyone whose car just rocks and who has invested mucho bucks (that goes for your as well) to take a loss by a lightly modified or stock car and have it indellibly inked on his or her record? Again, is it wrong to want a rematch with a person who initially challenged you, polliticked for votes (if this is the case-obviously the judges think so or they wouldn't be rebuking me), and now as a result you have a loss on your record cause someone couldn't play fairly? Why not take the loss off our records? And that goes for everyone who has suffered the same fate.

I've been around here for a while, and this is one of the main reasons I stay away :(. So I hope you understand my logic, Scott. If you want to see "fair" competition, go after the people who have recklessly abused the system. Wipe out face-off records and start over. But there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to clear my car's reputation. And as long as that loophole exists, I don't see a problem with it. I've been to plenty of real-time car shows in competition, as I'm sure you have. And the rules differ vastly. When you compete in a "Ford Mustang" class, for example, all sorts of Mustangs roll in. The sponsor of the event usually has a limited budget and decides beforehand what the classes will be, even before the cars enter. Sometimes they'll split it out. But the judges here have a unique opportunity. They are not limited by fixed budgets. They can create all the classes they want. If the judges on this site take offense to the way things currently are (they created the system, not us) then change it! Don't assume everyone thinks the same way you do. And certainly don't lambast us when you haven't clarified your own policies. Start by defining what best "overall" car means.

When people see my record, I want them to know that when it was compiled correctly, I beat so-and-so person or I lost. I just don't see anything wrong with wanting things to be done honorably.

So if you're worried about who me or anyone else will compete against, get those classes right. As for me, I'll take on anyone if it's done fairly. Put me in the custom class. Put me in any class you want. I'm not being belligerent, just looking at this logically, and being a little forceful. I hope you can appreciate my honesty. Thanks for listening.

trey3.8

Bravo :clap: nicely said!!!

[blown93feature]

ok, here it is in a nut shell. Trey I see your point in the old school faceoffs and I had said it time and time again that the outcomes were not what they should have been so this judged deal is a welcome change in my book. I believe that it wasn't only your face off that sparked the change in the way things are done in the face offs but just another example of what not to do when it comes to the face offs. I personaly like having my ride in a class so that it levels the playing field a little more and makes it more interesting for all. The other part of this is that people are running away with points because of the obvious winner and no real rules to speak of so I believe your going to see changes in how things are done.

I also believe that by having guide lines for not only judges but the members to as to how they set up there face off and how there judged will be a benifit to everyone especialy if people are in a class that won't have a automatic blow out plus I think people should be held accountable for going after other members sites that don't have good quality pixs for the judges to go by. I believe this will also make it more difficult for members to just go after the obvious winner because both sites will display adequit photos and the wagering crowd will take more time in the decision as to which car they put there points on.

I would say that if people took the time to think about what they're angry about before they type than things wouldn't get out of hand, or feelings being hurt because of miscomunication.
With that being said I would say that having 5 different classes to be placed in is a good thing and if you think that you want to be put in the next class up than asked to be put in there and if you don't do so well than there is no one to blame than yourself right. :thumpupn:

[crimsonblack]

Removed my post - Never mind. Sorry

[Scott 01Cobra]

ok, here it is in a nut shell. Trey I see your point in the old school faceoffs and I had said it time and time again that the outcomes were not what they should have been so this judged deal is a welcome change in my book. I believe that it wasn't only your face off that sparked the change in the way things are done in the face offs but just another example of what not to do when it comes to the face offs. I personaly like having my ride in a class so that it levels the playing field a little more and makes it more interesting for all. The other part of this is that people are running away with points because of the obvious winner and no real rules to speak of so I believe your going to see changes in how things are done.

I also believe that by having guide lines for not only judges but the members to as to how they set up there face off and how there judged will be a benifit to everyone especialy if people are in a class that won't have a automatic blow out plus I think people should be held accountable for going after other members sites that don't have good quality pixs for the judges to go by. I believe this will also make it more difficult for members to just go after the obvious winner because both sites will display adequit photos and the wagering crowd will take more time in the decision as to which car they put there points on.

I would say that if people took the time to think about what they're angry about before they type than things wouldn't get out of hand, or feelings being hurt because of miscomunication.
With that being said I would say that having 5 different classes to be placed in is a good thing and if you think that you want to be put in the next class up than asked to be put in there and if you don't do so well than there is no one to blame than yourself right. :thumpupn:


Yep - well said ....

[trey3.8]

No disagreements here that the system needs work.

[blueponygirl]

Well I turned my site off to judged face offs...before this post. I just saw how lopsided the wagering was against me!! I don't mind being challenged, don't get me wrong!! but I really don't expect my car to win any judged events, I don't really have my website set up for stuff like that. I like the idea of not having cars like Trey's with tons and tons of money in it against stock cars like my mine!!!

[warrenlow0]

:nos: thay allare sweet but mine is a little tricky LOL :devil:

[lxexpress]

this is a thought....why not give EVERYONE THE OPTION to accept or decline any and all face offs,judged or otherwise???? that way you can check out the other persons site first before you accept,and then if you think you got lots for the opponent(and YOU think you can win) accept...if you think your gonna get your ass kicked,go to the decline mode and move on...that way the only person to blame for your loss is YOU.because you put yourself in that situation.NOBODY ELSE!!!!!!!!!seriously if you go to a live car show and you're competing against other people if you own a 2000 gt with tinted windows and a stereo and another person shows up in a 75000.00 cobra that hasnt missed a single trick.do you expect to beat him??? not if you have 1/2 a brain in your head,chances are he's there because he has spent the time and effort building a show quality ride that deserves to win,most car shows i go to have two basic classes stock or modified and then different generation classes.i dont see the need for all these different classes. the members at the top of the pole..(you know who you are) if you are picking on someone of a way lesser car then you need to rethink your way of earning points...on the other hand for the members that are working their way up the ladder and you snag some wins along the way good for you...just a quick note as i was reading over what i wrote,any examples given here are purely that and nothing else..also i dont mean the people who are at the top of the rankings either.....

[Slow 5.0]

I think the catagory system is a great idea but I think a few people right now are getting misranked in catagories that they shouldn't be in. You have people with similar mods placed in different catagories. You have people with lots of exterior/interior mods and little performance mods in higher areas that clearly suggest a lower modded status. You have a car that is listed as moderately modded that should be listed in heavy or custom.

What are the criteria for each of the modded catagories, knowing that stock and custom are self explained?

[2003BlackSVT]

By the looks of it it's still under the works. I would say they have gone and classified the ones that have been in faceoffs already judging by the list so far.
Nope, hadn't done me yet.....so I signed up to be classsified....much better idea J.... :beerchug: keeps it a lil fairer

[2003BlackSVT]

this is a thought....why not give EVERYONE THE OPTION to accept or decline any and all face offs,judged or otherwise???? that way you can check out the other persons site first before you accept,and then if you think you got lots for the opponent(and YOU think you can win) accept...if you think your gonna get your ass kicked,go to the decline mode and move on...that way the only person to blame for your loss is YOU.because you put yourself in that situation.NOBODY ELSE!!!!!!!!!seriously if you go to a live car show and you're competing against other people if you own a 2000 gt with tinted windows and a stereo and another person shows up in a 75000.00 cobra that hasnt missed a single trick.do you expect to beat him??? not if you have 1/2 a brain in your head,chances are he's there because he has spent the time and effort building a show quality ride that deserves to win,most car shows i go to have two basic classes stock or modified and then different generation classes.i dont see the need for all these different classes. the members at the top of the pole..(you know who you are) if you are picking on someone of a way lesser car then you need to rethink your way of earning points...on the other hand for the members that are working their way up the ladder and you snag some wins along the way good for you...just a quick note as i was reading over what i wrote,any examples given here are purely that and nothing else..also i dont mean the people who are at the top of the rankings either.....

Also well said :beerchug:

[Scott 01Cobra]

this is a thought....why not give EVERYONE THE OPTION to accept or decline any and all face offs,judged or otherwise???? that way you can check out the other persons site first before you accept,and then if you think you got lots for the opponent(and YOU think you can win) accept...if you think your gonna get your ass kicked,go to the decline mode and move on...that way the only person to blame for your loss is YOU.because you put yourself in that situation.NOBODY ELSE!!!!!!!!!seriously if you go to a live car show and you're competing against other people if you own a 2000 gt with tinted windows and a stereo and another person shows up in a 75000.00 cobra that hasnt missed a single trick.do you expect to beat him??? not if you have 1/2 a brain in your head,chances are he's there because he has spent the time and effort building a show quality ride that deserves to win,most car shows i go to have two basic classes stock or modified and then different generation classes.i dont see the need for all these different classes. the members at the top of the pole..(you know who you are) if you are picking on someone of a way lesser car then you need to rethink your way of earning points...on the other hand for the members that are working their way up the ladder and you snag some wins along the way good for you...just a quick note as i was reading over what i wrote,any examples given here are purely that and nothing else..also i dont mean the people who are at the top of the rankings either.....


Ya, well said ....

But I don't know what idiots would spend $75,000 on a Cobra .....

:loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser:

[lxexpress]

Ya, well said ....

But I don't know what idiots would spend $75,000 on a Cobra .....

:loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser:
my thoughts exactly.hahahahahahahaha

[lxexpress]

well i'm on here...i dont see anybody finding fault with my idea yet???????anybody got a better idea???lets hear some input from everyone........

[OZ98Cobra]

this is a thought....why not give EVERYONE THE OPTION to accept or decline any and all face offs,judged or otherwise???? that way you can check out the other persons site first before you accept,and then if you think you got lots for the opponent(and YOU think you can win) accept...if you think your gonna get your ass kicked,go to the decline mode and move on...that way the only person to blame for your loss is YOU.because you put yourself in that situation.NOBODY ELSE!!!!!!!!!seriously if you go to a live car show and you're competing against other people if you own a 2000 gt with tinted windows and a stereo and another person shows up in a 75000.00 cobra that hasnt missed a single trick.do you expect to beat him??? not if you have 1/2 a brain in your head,chances are he's there because he has spent the time and effort building a show quality ride that deserves to win,most car shows i go to have two basic classes stock or modified and then different generation classes.i dont see the need for all these different classes. the members at the top of the pole..(you know who you are) if you are picking on someone of a way lesser car then you need to rethink your way of earning points...on the other hand for the members that are working their way up the ladder and you snag some wins along the way good for you...just a quick note as i was reading over what i wrote,any examples given here are purely that and nothing else..also i dont mean the people who are at the top of the rankings either.....

IMO, this is the solution - members should always have the right and ability to refuse face off challenges - it has been suggested many many times, but for some strange reason was not given a go?

I see some potential issues with the classification system - it is overly simplistic to just have a scale of how modified a car is from stock to custom - for example, how would my Cobra be classified? It is a stock body, stock interior, stock engine, and it has a long list of suspension and safety mods to make it suitable for road course use, but the only telltale signs of that are the slightly lower ride height and a roll bar. So assuming it ends up in the "moderately modified class" and ends up challenged by another "moderately modified" member who has opted for appearance mods over handling mods - who is going to win a "best overall car" face off? The appearance modded car of course!

Also, lumping cars in classes makes it impossible for someone with a relatively stock car but a great GS website to challenge someone with a heavily modded car and have the face off judged on website presentation alone?

So what do you do? Have different class systems for performance and show oriented cars? Can't see that working either unless you have those who have both performance and appearance mods on their rides to been in 2 classes? That's starting to get complicated?

So my 2 bits worth is that if you must have a classification system of some type, make it only auto acceptance for your class or above, but add the ability for class mismatch challenges to be accepted or denyed manually. Personally, I would prefer not to have any classes and just add the ability to accept or deny all face offs period - you could have the choice to configure your face off settings as auto accept all, manual, or deny all.

[tobedeleted_blnpony05]

IMO, this is the solution - members should always have the right and ability to refuse face off challenges - it has been suggested many many times, but for some strange reason was not given a go?

I see some potential issues with the classification system - it is overly simplistic to just have a scale of how modified a car is from stock to custom - for example, how would my Cobra be classified? It is a stock body, stock interior, stock engine, and it has a long list of suspension and safety mods to make it suitable for road course use, but the only telltale signs of that are the slightly lower ride height and a roll bar. So assuming it ends up in the "moderately modified class" and ends up challenged by another "moderately modified" member who has opted for appearance mods over handling mods - who is going to win a "best overall car" face off? The appearance modded car of course!

Also, lumping cars in classes makes it impossible for someone with a relatively stock car but a great GS website to challenge someone with a heavily modded car and have the face off judged on website presentation alone?

So what do you do? Have different class systems for performance and show oriented cars? Can't see that working either unless you have those who have both performance and appearance mods on their rides to been in 2 classes? That's starting to get complicated?

So my 2 bits worth is that if you must have a classification system of some type, make it only auto acceptance for your class or above, but add the ability for class mismatch challenges to be accepted or denyed manually. Personally, I would prefer not to have any classes and just add the ability to accept or deny all face offs period - you could have the choice to configure your face off settings as auto accept all, manual, or deny all.

I agree...some of the stangs in my class are modded different...I have chose at this point to go for looks not speed...so if I challenge someone the is go and not show how will that work. That IMO will come down to the personal opinion of the judge...what do they like better? you are all go and I am show...who would win???

[J]

The only time auto acceptance came into affect with the old system was when a person with less rank points challenged someone with more rank points. This was to allow a totally astonishing NEW user stang to compete with our 'older' members. The new user has virtually no rank points and would prolly not be able to find a face-off opponent who would accept his astonishing ride.

With the new system you can challenge anyone in your class or above but are not allowed to go out of your class... for any reason.

After the class check... it checks for points.. just like the old system.

But this is up for debate.

[J]

They are weighted the same.... if you have more go then they have show... you win

[Scott 01Cobra]

Well OZ ....

I answered your concern on the previous page when I suggested that a car should be able to challenge ANY car providing it is in a specific area, and as long as a judge approves the challenge. For example me and you going head to head with website. That type of thing. Or me being able to challenge TREY to an interior class. That sort of thing. I agree that overall car should be as it is.

[Sexi_Lil_Stang04]

I was put under the stock category.. My car isnt necesarily stock.. There are some mods done

[Scott 01Cobra]

I was put under the stock category.. My car isnt necesarily stock.. There are some mods done

That sounds like enough to be in the next one up. Just barely though - you are right on the fence in my opinion. There will be cars in the next class with more mods done - you'll have it tough with some of them. But hey, more fun that way right?

Your next mod will be ...... Lowering springs???? :)

[YsOffcr]

this is a thought....why not give EVERYONE THE OPTION to accept or decline any and all face offs,judged or otherwise????
I think this would solve all b*tchin', complainin', moanin', and whinin' about the face offs. Simple and straightforward, like it has been stated before this has been suggested and never been tried.

[electricgreen]

seriously if you go to a live car show and you're competing against other people if you own a 2000 gt with tinted windows and a stereo and another person shows up in a 75000.00 cobra that hasnt missed a single trick.do you expect to beat him??? not if you have 1/2 a brain in your head,chances are he's there because he has spent the time and effort building a show quality ride that deserves to win,most car shows i go to have two basic classes stock or modified and then different generation classes.i dont see the need for all these different classes. the members at the top of the pole..(you know who you are) if you are picking on someone of a way lesser car then you need to rethink your way of earning points...on the other hand for the members that are working their way up the ladder and you snag some wins along the way good for you...just a quick note as i was reading over what i wrote,any examples given here are purely that and nothing else..also i dont mean the people who are at the top of the rankings either.....

If it were a judged show, it would be entirely possible if the judging was not lopsided towards $ spent. A judged show basically judges the clean factor-however, keeping that in mind, it would depend on the class. If that Cobra was in a stock class, the GT would likely win, due to the points deduction for mods. In a modded class, it would be an even field. I once tied with a Boss 302 for 2nd in a judged show with my V6. I'm quite sure the Boss was worth a lot more than my car, but they were both stock (I think the Boss was restored to stock, but that's not really important). The money and mods shouldn't count, unless the mods are sloppy (unpainted pieces, poorly installed, etc).

That's why I said this was going to be hard to figure out when it was announced. Without being able to personally see a car, they have to be arbitarary in deciding certain factors. Techincally, unless the title mentioned mods/modded, they should not even figure into the decision. Otherwise, it's back to a participant judged type show configuration-with less participants to vote!

[J]

I think this would solve all b*tchin', complainin', moanin', and whinin' about the face offs. Simple and straightforward, like it has been stated before this has been suggested and never been tried.
This is why people who were challenged dont lose points, its the same idea.

[J]

JUDGED FACE-OFFS are LIVE.

[OZ98Cobra]

:attention OK, how on earth did I end up in Heaviliy Modified fer crying out loud? :bs: I have a 100% stock body, 100% stock engine - hell it's even got the original air box with the only "improvement" being a later model snorkel - stock wheels - stock interior - it still has the stock shifter! .... even the suspension is stock style (as in it does not have coil overs). The only mods to this car are to stiffen the chassis and improve handling and safety on a road course, and many of those are just stock items from other Cobra models! - suspension bushings, springs and shocks, brake pads, etc. I could argue it is only lightly modified, but I conceed that the retro-fit of a 2001 independant rear suspension system probably pushes it into Moderately Modified?

Methinks the judges need to look beyond the length of the mod list and look at the mods themselves. I don't have a snowflakes hell in hades in a face off against ANY of the other cars in the heavily modified class, so either someone takes another look at my classification and common sense prevails and I get bumped down a class or two, or I will have to block judged face offs unfortunately - and I'd rather not do that ...

[01FR500]

I agree with OZ. His car seems like it must be modded to Hell since he runs it on the course but if doesn't have one single mod other than suspension then it doesn't seem fair to him. If our cars were both in a car show and in a modified class I bet I would win even though I have not a single suspension mod. I wish there were a set rule of guidelines that the judges are going by that we could all see. There are probably some cars that are classed a little too low also. One Awesome stang that stood out to me was The Guardian, (just b/c its a six and I really like it, not to single you out) The Guardian is ranked lightly modified. I am ranked Moderately Modded. the Guardian has more exterior mods than me, Way more interior mods. (I'm almost stock interior wise) and just as many performance mods that I know of. I think that if I challenged The Guardian in Overall Best Stang, The Guardian would win(IMO). Im not mad that I'm ranked moderately, only that other cars a few cars are ranked out of place, I think, like OZ and The Guardian. So if someone could explain, give guidelines, ect, about how were being classed, it would clear up some confusion.

[J]

If your face-off was deleted it was because I have fixed the judged face-offs script to deny certain face-offs.

[Scott 01Cobra]

:attention OK, how on earth did I end up in Heaviliy Modified fer crying out loud? :bs: I have a 100% stock body, 100% stock engine - hell it's even got the original air box with the only "improvement" being a later model snorkel - stock wheels - stock interior - it still has the stock shifter! .... even the suspension is stock style (as in it does not have coil overs). The only mods to this car are to stiffen the chassis and improve handling and safety on a road course, and many of those are just stock items from other Cobra models! - suspension bushings, springs and shocks, brake pads, etc. I could argue it is only lightly modified, but I conceed that the retro-fit of a 2001 independant rear suspension system probably pushes it into Moderately Modified?

Methinks the judges need to look beyond the length of the mod list and look at the mods themselves. I don't have a snowflakes hell in hades in a face off against ANY of the other cars in the heavily modified class, so either someone takes another look at my classification and common sense prevails and I get bumped down a class or two, or I will have to block judged face offs unfortunately - and I'd rather not do that ...


Have to agree with you ......

Actually you should ne the "Road racer" class :D

[Cobra94]

I cant believe I am going to ask this question, and get into all this BS. :bs: I normally just sit back, read these types of posts and move on with a laugh, but i just gatta ask, because the is NO rime or reason to it. where or how can one find out what qualifies a car to be in a certian category? Modified, Heavily modified, etc. no vague answers either. not who has been, WHAT. and have the specfic qualities been set already?

[FierceRage]

I cant believe I am going to ask this question, and get into all this BS. I normally just sit back, read these types of posts and move on with a laugh, but i just gatta ask, because the is NO rime or reason to it. where or how can one find out what qualifies a car to be in a certian category? Modified, Heavily modified, etc. no vague answers either. not who has been, WHAT. and have the specfic qualities been set already?



I would also like to know that. I was put into the Heavily Modified, When I should have been in the Custom Category. I have made my whole car custom there are even pictures that show the stang since the start till now. :ugh2:

[Scott 01Cobra]

I would also like to know that. I was put into the Heavily Modified, When I should have been in the Custom Category. I have made my whole car custom there are even pictures that show the stang since the start till now. :ugh2:


Wouldn't it be an advantage to you if the judges under-ranked you? That being the case you should win all your face-offs right?

PS - I agree with you BTW!

[Cobra94]

I cant believe I am going to ask this question, and get into all this BS. :bs: I normally just sit back, read these types of posts and move on with a laugh, but i just gatta ask, because the is NO rime or reason to it. where or how can one find out what qualifies a car to be in a certian category? Modified, Heavily modified, etc. no vague answers either. not who has been, WHAT. and have the specfic qualities been set already?post bump!!!!!!!!!!!! wheres the answer!

[J]

post bump!!!!!!!!!!!! wheres the answer!
Stock - nothing done to the car
Slightly Modified - Some things done to the car - little stuff - Floor mats - tail lights - Painting interior - lowering springs - CAI
Moderately Modified - More then the average moder - usually includes some more performance stuff - power adder - Plus exterior, Interior - Stereo mods.
Heavily Modified - Moderately modified to the next level
Custom - ALOT of custom work done to the car - ALL ASPECTS - Interior Exterior ENGINE and Stereo. Shit you see in a magazine.

[FierceRage]

Interior- got it

exterior-got it

stereo-got it

Engine-got it, my engine is not stock. It doesn't have alot of bling or powdercoating but it is not stock. :ugh2:

[Scott 01Cobra]

Interior- got it

exterior-got it

stereo-got it

Engine-got it, my engine is not stock. It doesn't have alot of bling or powdercoating but it is not stock. :ugh2:


That's the only thing I was going to say about yours ..... everything is over the top fantastic ... with the exception of the bay. I think all the ones in that class are somewhat blinged or "built" out. That's all.

Mind you - It's not far off ....

Polish the blower and inlet pipe .... get a canton overflow-polished and you are WELL on your way. Not discounting the car - you know that!

[Cobra94]

Stock - nothing done to the car
Slightly Modified - Some things done to the car - little stuff - Floor mats - tail lights - Painting interior - lowering springs - CAI
Moderately Modified - More then the average moder - usually includes some more performance stuff - power adder - Plus exterior, Interior - Stereo mods.
Heavily Modified - Moderately modified to the next level
Custom - ALOT of custom work done to the car - ALL ASPECTS - Interior Exterior ENGINE and Stereo. Shit you see in a magazine.hey thanks J!
not that I'm complaining (much). My car anit shit to MOST on this site, and i dont mind being under categorized (works to my advantage) but i sure as shit anit a stock anymore. i dont care if my classification changes. I was just baffled on how/who made that choice, not just for me, but others as well. ----suggestion-- I would converse with your judges and make sure they themselves understand the categories too, because right now,,,,,,,well..........





anyway......feedback on this would be great.

[tobedeleted_blnpony05]

http://www.gotstang.com/jfaceoffs.php?faceoffid=163

This is for example only!!!! Both of these stangs are amazing in there own way...IMO based on the judges comments Midge lost because she has an 05....maybe we should start classes by year?? That should make it easier...right :ugh2: If I have no chance of winning against a older car in my class that is supposed to be equally modded then what is the point of doing them at all? I am willing to bet none of the judges own an 05....they are a car you must be familiar with to apperciate...there is more there than a pretty face. I feel comfortable in saying that because I have owned at least 1 of every body style that ford produced....1978,1992,1993,1996 (2) 2000 and 2001....I was 2 young to own anything older...but if someone has an extra laying around I'll take it :lol:


Judge 1 Midge is a very nice 05/06 model, but it's damn hard to compete against a car that is 13 years old and flawless. I know this isn't much of an explanation, but glowstang needs no explanation. Great job. Picked
glowstang93



Judge 2 Not really much of a contest here. glowstang93 just has quite a few more mods than Midge.T. I don't know why he's in stock. Maybe moderately modified? Winner - glowstang93. Picked
glowstang93



Judge 3 A very well kept fox with some mods vs an 05 stang that basically just rolled off the lot. Not a good matchup in my opinion. but since i have to choose....glowstang93 gets it. Picked
glowstang93



Judge 4 Wow clean 93' that's for sure and nice pictures to prove it as well as midge.t too. The vote is going on the 93 for having a great clean car after all these years and having a few little touches to make it that much better. Nice face off as well! Picked
glowstang93



Judge 5 Both cars look great. But comparing a brand new car - fresh off the show-room floor to a car 13 years older that has several mods done to it ...... and still in great shape? Pretty tough. Glowstang, you should take on some older cars - I think you know most will side with you based on the age and the quality of it still - (which is fantastic). win = glowstang93 Picked
glowstang93

[Scott 01Cobra]

My experience with judging is that you can not please everyone all the time. I run at least 5 car shows a year, and some of them over the years have been very high end. Like the modular shootout Car show I use to run in the States where we gave $5000 in cash spread out amongst the winners - that brought out some EXTREMELY high end cars.

Cleanliness has to always be first. The judges here can not look at that here - unless there are some closeups of dirty bays.

It is VERY hard to judge an older car to a newer car if they are in the same class. If you were to drive your 93 mustang over to a dealer and judge it against the mustang in the window which would YOU pick?

A show is about cleanliness and condition. Condition gets less points directed to a brand new car, simply because it is brand spankin new - but it gets high points on an older car. That's why the one you posted (blnpony05) won the way he did ..... just guessing, but I know I would have done the same if I were ever asked to judge those 2 cars. Mods are bonus points on top.

I have people complain to me at shows all the time. Even people that win trophys complain to me because they wanted a different one. I mean REALLY!!!! One guy last year was actually pissed because he won a trophy titled "Cleanest Car". I am 100% serious.

To make everone here happy I think J would need to create about 20 categories of cars. But then some categories would be SO empty they wouldn't have anyone to challenge - and that's no fun.

[lxexpress]

ok i'm having a hard time understanding this....and this ISNT diss against glowstang..but a perfect example of why we need to rethink this judged face off thing.this is a face off between two cars not how the website is laid out,this is what the judges said....tough choice for me. Reefe93 stang is nice, and a nice list of mods...just please put them in a list format rather than a paragraph. glowstang93's ride is just super clean...and the site is better layed out. glowstang gets my vote... Picked
glowstang93



Glowstang - I appreciate you following my advice and taking on an older car. Gee wiz, could you have taken on anything closer to yours? - lolol. Wow is this hard. Both are beautiful - both have several great mods but not a ton of mods. Very fair match up. Both exteriors are perfect - interior I'll give to glow - simply because of more pics - and the stereo work done. Engine on the other hand I'm going with Reef. Glow you should consider replacing your hood blanket .... ;) Going to give the edge here to the site that I think is a little better which is glowstang. More pics and layout out a little clearer. I'd like you BOTH to list your mods in LIST format. Win = glowstang93 .............so taking this into consideration how does the way a website is "laid out better" come into play when you are judging a car???????the judging should be on the car and its attributes not in "how well the site is laid out" this faceoff doesnt say anything about websites??? and before the name calling starts and everybody gets their shit in a knot,if someone can explain this so i can understand i'll apologize and not say anything else about it.both votes went to a car that won because of the site not the car...

[J]

I think they are referring to more pics showing all aspects of the car... not website 'layout'

[REEF93]

http://horsepowerjunkies.com/dunno.gif

I agree with him, it was overall car not website. When car show judging goes on there are classifications for best gt, best daily driver, best "website", and so on ,,In my opinion the only one that should be determined by website layout would be the one that said best website not best overall car. :hmmm:
Thats just my .02 :thanks:
http://www.horsepowerjunkies.com/smilies/dance.gif

[lxexpress]

I think they are referring to more pics showing all aspects of the car... not website 'layout'
then they should say that...the way that it is written directly says because of the site..they picked glowstang.... quote"and the site is better layed out. glowstang gets my vote" quote"More pics and layout out a little clearer. I'd like you BOTH to list your mods in LIST format. Win = glowstang93 "

[01FR500]

Hey, If we choose not to put a wager on a judged Face-off does it count aginst your winning streak? I had a winning streak of 17, I could bet 850 points! Tonight I saw that CDog and Sublime had a faceoff and I didnt bet on it b/c I didn't see it for some reason. Now I can only bet 10 points and my current winning streak is 0, this sucks. I would have bet on it if I had known. Oh well, now I have a goal of beating my old record. Also, if we are in a Judged Face-off does it count aginst our winning streak or whatever if we lose or win?

[01FR500]

One more Question. Has anyone else been removed from the list of cars able to compete in the JFO? I was classified as Moderate and was on the list for a while and now I don't see myself on the list. My profile still says I'm classified as Moderate. I have not been challenged nor have I challenged anyone, I enjoy wagering more, but have I not been challenged b/c no one knows i'm able to compete? I asked J but he never got back to me. Any one else with this problem?

[J]

Did you lose a face-off recently? The streaks are calculated after each face-off is judged. So if an older face-off that you wagered on awhile back just got judged recently and you lost.. it would affect your streak.

Go here to check your face-offs in chronological order on how they were judged.

http://www.gotstang.com/wagerchecker.php

[J]

http://www.gotstang.com/profile.php?01fr500&info=1#jump

On the right hand side column it says CAR CLASS:

Hope this helps.

[01FR500]

Ohh ok, I see about my wager record now, It was Jamessocal and Drkhorse that I lost, I have no idea why I didn't know I lost thoes points. Probably deleted the message without reading it good. Thanks J.

[J]

Ohh ok, I see about my wager record now, It was Jamessocal and Drkhorse that I lost, I have no idea why I didn't know I lost thoes points. Probably deleted the message without reading it good. Thanks J.
actually there was a problem with guestbook entries for a day :)

[YsOffcr]

Is ANYONE going to give an answer to my classification question? http://forums.gotstang.com/showthread.php?p=63738#post63738 I mean this classification thing is getting out of hand. First of all I would like to say is I never asked to be classified, when I looked at the new JFOs I saw I had alredy been Classified as Moderately Modified. Why is mine Moderate? Just because I did a AOD to T-5 swap? It's not like I put a T-56 in it, T-5s came stock in these cars. Mine just happened to come with an AOD and I changed it. And now I look at the list and see this one in the same category.

Interior

Auto Meter gauge pod w/ Oil Pressure and Water Temp Auto Meter "Phantom Series" gauges
Custom painted interior pieces
Katzkin custom leather seats
Mac white face gauges
MGW LTD chrome interior accents
White LEDs used in door panels

Exterior

House of Kolor Kandy Magenta flames with Orion Silver tips hand outlined in teal
Dayton Imports Vertical Doors
2001 Mustang GT hood scoop
2001 Mustang GT side scoops
Bullit Mustang fuel door
Fiberglass Challenger bumper
Custom Clear Corners
Muth Signal Mirrors
Sequential Tail Lights
Tinted Windows
Underbody Neon Kit (purple)
Vinyl Bumper Inserts
Whelen Four Strobe Kit
Eibach Sportline Lowering Kit
17x9 Chrome Cobra R's

Multimedia

5" LCDs in front visors
7" widescreen LCD in trunk lid
Alpine CVA-1006 head unit
Alpine CHA-S614 6-disc changer
Custom trunk enclosure with plexiglass flame accents and Mustang Pony backlit with purple neon
JL Audio 500.1 monoblock amp (subs)
Kicker Impluse 40x4 amp (highs)
Kicker Solobarics (10" x2)
Lanzar DVD-97 DVD player

Engine/Performance

Mac Cold Air Induction
ASP Underdrive Pulley
Chrome alternator
Chrome overflow bottle
Chrome power steering neck cover
Chrome strut tower caps
MGW LTD billit chrome dipstick handle
MGW LTD billit chrome oil cap
Polished fuse block cover
Polished upper radiator hose
3.73 Gears w/ T-Lok
Transgo Shift Kit
Custom dual exhaust with Holley Flowtech Warlock mufflers w/ 2.5" exhaust bypass
JBA Shorty Cat4ward headers
McCord Power Plates (electronic exhaust cutouts)

How am I supposed to compete with this? My 92 has 98% stock exterior and 95% stock interior, but I'm "moderately modified". I don't expect to win every JFO, but I would like to have a chance. Like I have said before ther are Stangs with equal mods to mine in the lower class..........WHY?

[YsOffcr]

Problem solved thanks J.