Discussion topic.

[Roush2960]

New Debate for V8...Headers.

Are you after Long's or short's and why?

Do you think either one makes more power by themselves or only with certain mods?

Myself I am going with FRPP Shorties for my blower setup. The Mech that did my install said they will work the best with my setup and I had already purchased them.

./M@

[Joe Friday]

Long tubes all the way, you'll see power gains through the power band. Sure they are alittle more work to install but worth it in my openion.

[thumpin347]

long tubes without a doubt

[232stang]

if youre blown long tubes, n/a shortys

[thumpin347]

if youre blown long tubes, n/a shortys
ummm...no

[232stang]

ummm...no
please explaine...

[thumpin347]

please explaine...
generally, whether you are N/A or S/C, the main difference in long tubes and short tubes is the amount of low end torque...generally long tubes are proven to generate a bit more low end torque. this is because the individual tubes, or primaries, stay individual for a longer length and collect at the bottom rather than collecting up further closer to the exhaust ports of the heads, resulting in easier exhaustion of the gases coming out of the motor. however, people resort to shorties because

A) shorties give more ground clearance
B) easier to install
C) cheaper
D) long tubes require you to buy a mid pipe specifically for long tubes

now, here is the difference when picking headers. mass produced headers come in 2 tube sizes...1 5/8" and 1 3/4". basically, when you pick the wrong tube, size, 1 3/4" being the bigger tube size, you are not maintaining enough velocity of exhaust gases, making the car feel lazy, thus reducing your tq numbers. 1 5/8" long tubes are generally the only sized primary you will need unless you are pushing 400+ on a car. its basically the same as putting a 3" exhaust on a stock car, it'll do you no good.

you are always better off going with long tubes. if you are stock, the differences in gains between shorties and long tubes may be marginal, but you always have the room to grow into them.

i say you sell of those FRPP shorties, and get some Mac long tubes in a 1 5/8" primary size, with a ceramic coating. of course this requires you to buy a mid pipe specifically for long tubes. you will benefit alot more from them with your SC'd set up.

[232stang]

generally, whether you are N/A or S/C, the main difference in long tubes and short tubes is the amount of low end torque...generally long tubes are proven to generate a bit more low end torque. this is because the individual tubes, or primaries, stay individual for a longer length and collect at the bottom rather than collecting up further closer to the exhaust ports of the heads, resulting in easier exhaustion of the gases coming out of the motor. however, people resort to shorties because

A) shorties give more ground clearance
B) easier to install
C) cheaper
D) long tubes require you to buy a mid pipe specifically for long tubes

now, here is the difference when picking headers. mass produced headers come in 2 tube sizes...1 5/8" and 1 3/4". basically, when you pick the wrong tube, size, 1 3/4" being the bigger tube size, you are not maintaining enough velocity of exhaust gases, making the car feel lazy, thus reducing your tq numbers. 1 5/8" long tubes are generally the only sized primary you will need unless you are pushing 400+ on a car. its basically the same as putting a 3" exhaust on a stock car, it'll do you no good.

you are always better off going with long tubes. if you are stock, the differences in gains between shorties and long tubes may be marginal, but you always have the room to grow into them.

i say you sell of those FRPP shorties, and get some Mac long tubes in a 1 5/8" primary size, with a ceramic coating. of course this requires you to buy a mid pipe specifically for long tubes. you will benefit alot more from them with your SC'd set up.
interesting, i had always heard that long tubes on a stock engine would cause a loss of back pressue, causing you to lose lowend torque

[thumpin347]

and on a side note. it is easy to go big...everyone thinks bigger is better. when i went with my heads intake manifold and cam, i went a lil too big.

i bought trick flow TW heads, then dropped them off at the machine shop to have them ported out to 1262 on the intake and the exhaust ports were opened a lil bit, and 3 angle valve jobbed them. the intake manifold was ported 1262 throughout the entire runner lengths. i also bought a big cam, but then bought another smaller cam and shelfed the big cam. i basically worked them to put on a stroker later on. i ended up with a combo that runs somewhat sluggishly compared to cars with AFR165 heads which are smaller than out of box TW heads, and box stock intake manifolds. but once i pick up RPMs, my car starts hauling ass, and runs them down by the top of 3rd for the pass, which is pretty cool when i see their expressions afterwards. basically, my TQ gains arent what they couldve been if i left them both box stock because i went too big and lost the intake and exhaust velocity...so dont go big unless you really need it!

[thumpin347]

interesting, i had always heard that long tubes on a stock engine would cause a loss of back pressue, causing you to lose lowend torque
thats with 1 3/4" primaries...same thing if you went 1 3/4" shorties

[Joe Friday]

I think the BBK's are better than the MAC long tubes. any thoughts on that? I knwo that the mac's have problems with rust

[thumpin347]

I think the BBK's are better than the MAC long tubes. any thoughts on that? I knwo that the mac's have problems with rust
i had BBK but the flange wasnt truly flat, so i was blowing header gaskets once a month. as far as rust problems with headers...all headers rust and change color from the heat unless they are ceramic coated. i heard mac is more consistent in quality providing flat,true, flanges

[My Cobra]

why header gaskets so often? i was debating on picking up some long tubes. I had a guy that wanted to sell me some BBK long tubes and a h pipe for my car for 550.

[thumpin347]

why header gaskets so often? i was debating on picking up some long tubes. I had a guy that wanted to sell me some BBK long tubes and a h pipe for my car for 550.
the flange wasnt a true level surface, causing a shitty seal, and exhaust gases wanted to escape through that shitty seal, causing the gasket to finally quit and tear. i'm not saying they are bad, just sharing my opinions...mac and bbk are entry level and are both the same in quality...just get them ceramic coated

[Roush2960]

generally, whether you are N/A or S/C, the main difference in long tubes and short tubes is the amount of low end torque...generally long tubes are proven to generate a bit more low end torque. this is because the individual tubes, or primaries, stay individual for a longer length and collect at the bottom rather than collecting up further closer to the exhaust ports of the heads, resulting in easier exhaustion of the gases coming out of the motor. however, people resort to shorties because

A) shorties give more ground clearance
B) easier to install
C) cheaper
D) long tubes require you to buy a mid pipe specifically for long tubes

now, here is the difference when picking headers. mass produced headers come in 2 tube sizes...1 5/8" and 1 3/4". basically, when you pick the wrong tube, size, 1 3/4" being the bigger tube size, you are not maintaining enough velocity of exhaust gases, making the car feel lazy, thus reducing your tq numbers. 1 5/8" long tubes are generally the only sized primary you will need unless you are pushing 400+ on a car. its basically the same as putting a 3" exhaust on a stock car, it'll do you no good.

you are always better off going with long tubes. if you are stock, the differences in gains between shorties and long tubes may be marginal, but you always have the room to grow into them.

i say you sell of those FRPP shorties, and get some Mac long tubes in a 1 5/8" primary size, with a ceramic coating. of course this requires you to buy a mid pipe specifically for long tubes. you will benefit alot more from them with your SC'd set up.


I was thinking LT, but I got the shorties at a good $$ too cheap to pass. I also have tons of low end torque. I am just looking to help get the exhaust out more freely. I also dont have a built bottom end...Yet ;).

Talked it over alot with the mech that did my install. He recommended the shorties as well. Say's I wont see that much gain with LT and the extra cost wont be woth it. So for me I am going to stick with them.

He also said for the shorties that FRPP are the ones to get. They have the larger opening for the head over all other brands.


./M@

[thumpin347]

I was thinking LT, but I got the shorties at a good $$ too cheap to pass. I also have tons of low end torque. I am just looking to help get the exhaust out more freely. I also dont have a built bottom end...Yet ;).

Talked it over alot with the mech that did my install. He recommended the shorties as well. Say's I wont see that much gain with LT and the extra cost wont be woth it. So for me I am going to stick with them.

He also said for the shorties that FRPP are the ones to get. They have the larger opening for the head over all other brands.


./M@
make sure you get ceramic coated headers

[NoSlo5.0]

Another thought for consideration...A lot of cars with LT's end up with the O2 sensor so far down the stream that they have difficulty staying at operating temperature. This leads to driveability problems when sitting at a light for any extended period of time. SN-95's are more susceptible than Foxes it seems. Electronic tuning can alleviate the problem in most cases (if it even exists)